Firstly, I hope all Tottenham Hotspur, and Vital Spurs, fans had a lovely Christmas and the big fat man in a red suit bought you all you desired – albeit for many sadly, not what they wanted with restrictions in place, but we’ll definitely be looking for manager Jose Mourinho to provide more cheer as we head towards 2021 with victory over Wolverhampton Wanderers at Molineux on Sunday evening.
With players rested for the EFL Cup clash with Stoke City, we should be in a good place to take victory once again as we travel, but we certainly can’t underestimate Nuno Espirito Santo’s side, even if they have had a bit of a wobbly spell in recent matches.
Tanguy Ndombele is reportedly fit for this one, but Giovani Lo Celso’s hamstring injury will see him out, along with Japhet Tanganga. The jury is out on Gareth Bale from what I’ve seen (which admittedly isn’t much) with the foot injury that saw him substituted at half time in the last one.
Let’s hope we top the Christmas period off in perfect style and take all three points.
Wolves
Win
Draw
Lose
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Spurs Through To The Semi’s But Stoke Gave Us A Small Panic – Match Stats
I’m depressed! We might manage to win the League Cup. But is winning that piece of silverware worth the football we are forced to watch? Our style has moved from the ‘Spurs way’ to the way of the bottom half of the clubs in the PL. If we are going to identify with them we will end up like them. Is any trophy worth that. The journey of THFC has taken a sidetrack. Let’s hope it doesn’t get lost completely. Gotta worry about football!
HT, you know in your heart that it will not end well with this man. Even if we win something along the way, it will be ugly–the play will be ugly and the overall scene will be ugly and his treatment of whomever is his goat, that will be ugly. Ugly is not a word that should come to mind for THFC.
It’s not worth it in my mind Geof. But Jose is not going anywhere right now.
So, like I said at the start of his time at THFC. Win us a trophy or two, then go!
Meanwhile, I will slavishly and perhaps foolishly hope for better…….
But then again, I had good reason to ask the same question on here over and again this season. What if we have to suffer such boring football and then we don’t win at the end of it all?
See, I am confused and conflicted…
I kind of just answered you thereTK without first seeing your words to me, with a post that didn’t yet post!
At the end of it I wrote that “I am confused and conflicted”…
… It was in fact in answer to Geof… I won’t repeat it because the post will probably appear soon enough…
Jose was not brought in to win a league cup, he was brought in to get us back into the Champions League and potentially challenge for the premier league title. Neither of those will happen.
I don’t think we parked the bus last night or against Palace. We simply had no idea what to do when we had the ball and Wolves were easily able to gain possession. This has been a common theme under Jose even in those bus parking games where we got some points.. Teams who previously let Kane drop deep are now surrounding him when he gets the ball and he is unable to do anything about it. We have no other attacking plan.
Kane and Son are knackered as are many of the team, they put so much effort into the previous games (doubling up as defenders) and at the moment there is nothing in the tank. Jose doesn’t trust most of the squad so he is happy to run players into the ground – he will no doubt blame the injuries as the season goes on.
He has become a cowardly manger frightened to take any risks – the players who were previously buying into his tactics look bemused at the moment, the attacking players so frustrated their defensive duties seem to come before anything else.
For the first time in my life as a Spurs fan I am starting to lose interest in the team, totally bored – it is an ordeal getting through 90 minutes watching this tripe. I simply cannot wait for him to leave, my guess is it will be at the end of the season, hopefully it will be sooner. COYS
I have been willing to give Jose a lot of leeway because of his track record, and I am willing to put up with poor displays as long as they deliver results. But if they are not, then I think criticism is justified.
Last night was poor, there is no discussion about it. I have tried to remain open-minded and not judge the methods but rather judge the results. Well that’s 3 points from 12 in the last 4 PL games – so obviously the method isn’t working at the moment.
I also read Jose’s post match comments, and Sky Sports even wrote an article about our current negativity (https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11675/12174185/jose-mourinhos-tottenham-pay-the-price-for-their-negativity-against-wolves).
Unlike TQ2Spurs, I am not going to jump to conclusions at this stage. Sure, the narrative of “Jose is turning against his players” is arriving at full speed – mostly because that’s what the Jose critics expect to happen. In a way it’s almost a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I also recognise that within our own dressing room, we have our own issues. Some of our own players have sometimes had their own shortcomings, mental frailty in some instances, being completely submerged by how a game was unfolding, and completely disregarding the game plan while doing so. We saw it towards the end of MP’s reign, when it was clear that some of the mistakes/behaviours/tendencies exhibited on the pitch were the complete opposite of what MP would have been focusing on in training. The Sky Sports article linked above speculates as much, asking if the players aren’t taking ill-advised initiatives of their own:
“Could it be that the messaging and the positive experiences in shutting out Manchester City, Chelsea and Arsenal has led to misplaced confidence in their ability to rely on clean sheets?”
The article points out that Jose’s substitution of Reguilon with Bergwijn was indeed positive, at a time when Wolves were dominating the exchanges, and would tend to lend some truth to Jose’s version of events.
The article also points out that starting with a back 3 was Jose’s decision, and maybe not the best decisison in hindsight.
Lots to digest there, but I found it a balanced article, and I also accept that in this case, Jose has some responsibility but may not be the only culprit.
And to add to that, we have now conceded 10 of our 15 goals in the PL from set pieces.
Tactics go out of the window when it comes to set pieces. They merely involve knowing where you have to be, getting the job done and getting the best out of whoever your direct opponent is.
Conceding from a set piece is a lack of either concentration or desire.
Again, Jose will have a hand in how set pieces are defended, but he cannot control players losing their one on ones.
I am not absolving Jose of criticism, but I think it’s fair to look at the full picture here.
Good posts, BS…
But surely BS, the more we sit back and invite tams onto us the more we are vulnerable to giving up free kicks. And therefore our chances of conceding from them are greatly increased. And as I said earlier. defensive mistakes then become almost inevitable… Even so, sometimes we really do just have to give the opposition some credit for well taken set pieces such as we saw with the Wolves goal yesterday.
I couldn’t find any club stats for free-kicks given away comparisons. But I did see that Hojbjerg has conceded the most free kicks as a player in the PL. Which didn’t surprise me.
And, given that he mostly sits just in front of our deep lying defence, then those free kicks are in dangerous positions in which many teams will eventually capitalise on when given so many opportunities to do so.
I had already read that Sky article this morning, BS. And it was a good and well balanced piece. But that was because the writer was just asking the questions that he had no answers for. Questions that are very similar to the ones myself and others have been asking all season.
Sorry, but one more thing BS.
You wrote this: “Unlike TQ2Spurs, I am not going to jump to conclusions at this stage. Sure, the narrative of “Jose is turning against his players” is arriving at full speed – mostly because that’s what the Jose critics expect to happen. In a way it’s almost a self-fulfilling prophecy.”
I have to ask why such a narrative from so many Spurs supporters? To speak for myself here., it’s because we have seen it all before from Jose. It’s what we have observed throughout his career.. If there is anyone to blame for a possible self fulfilling prophecy in all this, then it’s Jose himself…
Anyway, when all this eventually comes to an end with Jose. I don’t want any of my long standing doubts about him being a cause for me to then be saying “I told you so”!
It’s you and jod, BS, that I want to be seeing those words from…
Hi guys
Well another away draw that some how “again” feels like a defeat.
In watching the team selection for the start of the game, how could our team be seen otherwise than a defensive set up.
We literally had 3 forward players in N Dombers (having to do the work of two), HK10 actually a bit unsure of his position last night but being crowded out.
Sonny looked a bit lost, he did a lot of running but really to no avail.
My main point is that the rest of the team seemed to be content to let those three get on with it, with the exception of Regs.
I don’t think we need two defensive midfielders against a team who are struggling to score.
It should’ve been either Winks or Hoj but not both.
Surely Lamella, Bergwijn, or Dele from the start, and if we needed to close the game then bring on a second defensive midfielder.
We also Havnt got that settled defensive line up yet.
Why can’t JM see this.
On a plus point we are still in the top 5.
Niall D: “On a plus side we are still in the top 5”.
On a minus side, just a few days ago we were in first. First to fifth in a few days isn’t much of a plus side. 123 days ago, I think it was. 12 days from 1st to 5th. Now that’s rapid regress!
HT: ‘confused and conflicted’ is the most optimistic one can get about the JM situation. Proud and excited? Not so much. I love this club and its history, but its current stewardship is depressing. Even a trophy with JM won’t be worth the feelings of disgust that he engenders. Put simply: he has no respect for others nor for traditions of decency. He has despoiled ‘to dare is to do’. There no longer is daring in the play and there has been no doing in the most recent matches.
HT – that’s the beauty about football. What works in one game doesn’t necessarily work in another. Sure we can say that the sitting back cost us points against Palace and Wolves. But we were also able to weather the storm, keep a clean sheet and see relatively good results out of the City, Chelsea and Arsenal games, with largely the same tactics.
I think it’s a mistake to throw the baby out with the bath water and say that sitting deep will invariably lead to problems and goals conceded. If executed well, it is a worthy game plan in certain circumstances.
Sure the Sky article doesn’t have any answers, but I don’t think anybody has answers. And I doubt VS is a good place to look for them ;-).
Regarding your point about your doubts about Jose. I was personally against the appointment of MP when he first arrived. I thought he lacked any real experience at a top club, and had no track record of winning.
Over the next 5 years, MP surprised me in a good way, and helped create great memories. He took the club forward without a doubt, and I am happy to admit that I under estimated him.
However, I will also point out that he never was able to get anything over the line. He was not a winner before arriving, and he wasn’t one when he left.
This to point out that you can be right and wrong about someone at the same time. Yes he over performed based on my expectations of him, but he never managed to dispel the notion that he lacked the know-how to deliver trophies. That perception of him was proven true, unfortunately.
And we could be seeing the same thing out of your opinion of Jose Mourinho, when it’s all said and done. Right in some ways, but maybe happily surprised in others.
When it’s all said and done with Jose (whether it’s 6 games, 6 months, 6 years – it’s just a matter of time, as it it with any coach in the PL – average tenure for a PL manager is just over 2 years!), I’m sure there will have been areas where the team improved, and others where the team went backwards.
For all of his flaws, and the many doubts about him turning out to be true, even the harshest Jose critic cannot deny that under him, our showings against top 6 rivals are vastly improved, and that halfway through our season, we are not only still involved in every competition we have entered, but relatively well positioned in all.
We’re headed for the semis in the Carabao Cup, we’re certainly in the mix for top 4, and we’re into the EL knockout stages after topping our group.
For all of the criticism aimed at him for his destructive antics, Jose also comes with the reputation of being a winner. Well, he hasn’t been proven wrong yet, given that we are still playing for up to 4 trophies this year.
O,n a final note, I don’t believe in “I told you so’s” because I am yet to find anyone on VS who is consistently right about every claim he/she makes. We all have opinions which are sometimes validated, sometimes contradicted (in fact I remember you back a certain Vincent Janssen to be a success at our club… :-)).
Whatever happens with Jose, and whomever ends up being “right”, I don’t believe anyone can be 100% right in any case (as I explained with the MP example above), and even if someone is “right”, it’s only a matter of time before that person shoots themselves in the foot on another subject ;-).
That’s the beauty of VS.
That is all very true BS. But dare I say it’s all quite obvious too… We all know all of that. And it is indeed the beauty of VS….. And in all of love and life too… 🙂
But predicting the future success of a Spurs player is one thing. (Always a punt). But it’s not the same as observing and commenting on much of what has happened in the past with Jose. Or indeed the after thoughts of a match we’ve all just been bored and frustrated by……….
In a way I could say I told you so if we do win something with JM…. As I have predicted it many times on here…… But that’s just me doing a Jose… Playing safe!
Anyway, I am still keen to see the big turn around again. Whereby we beat Fulham and go on another long and unbeaten fun-run……. Why not?!
Up the Spurs!
When we have an opinon on a player, it is very often based on what he has done (or not done) in the past also… Same goes with a manager, as far as I’m concerned. They’re arguably bigger punts than the players!
TK
I was being a bit tongue in cheek.
However this time last year we had 30 points from 20 games this year we have 26 points from 15 games.
Granted we are in and around the same position, but we were out of the running League ways.
You say that we have fallen from first to fifth.
Come on who expected us to top the league at any time this season.
I said I would take it and enjoy the position whilst it lasted.
As I think BS said, JM’s plan came off against City, Chelsea, etc
Almost against Liverpool.
Where I have an issue is setting up like that to soak up pressure against Wolves and Palace, we should batter them. It was a Dire watch last night.
However so we’re Chelsea, ManU, Leicester
Liverpool didn’t cover themselves in glory either at the weekend.
All I was alluding to is that we’re in and about where we hoped to be at the start of the season.
We’re in the mix for top 4 and a trophy.
Probably trying to make the best of it.
Although I was as critical of Jose about this game as anyone here I have some sympathy for BS’s attempt to put matters in perspective, in particular the shared responsibility of certain players for the way we have been performing.
I can now well believe that Jose warned against deep defending at half time but it seems that we have got so used to this style of play over the recent tough run of games that they could just not snap out of the pattern of sideways backwards finishing up with a speculative long punt going no where resulting in yet another attack by our opponents. That sort of game eventually takes its toll in terms of stupid tackles in dangerous positions , sloppy passing, loss of confidence and fatal lapses of concentration towards the end of a game.
At least Jose seems to have learned the lesson that being ultra defensive throughout a game is not the way forward. And perhaps with an easier run of games to come he will now address these faults accordingly which will hopefully lead to the players getting used to a more attacking style of play.
Stan – I think that’s also fair. If you try to get players to defend, defend, defend for weeks then suddenly ask them to attack at half tilme of a game, it’s not going to go smoothly.
Stan….your last paragraph sounds like wishful thinking but for heavens sake let’s hope you are right!
Its so boring when we score 1st, so why not let them score 1st, will jose flick the switch to attack mode