With Tottenham Hotspur firing themselves past Pellets in our midweek Europa encounter, Spurs now know we will face Dinamo Zagreb in the Round of 16 but before we can get carried away with that, we will be looking to get our Premier League form back on track when we welcome Sean Dyche’s Burnley battlers to White Hart Lane this coming Sunday.
With five defeats in our last six games, plenty of confidence can be taken from Wednesday’s clash and plenty of Spurs fans will be hoping manager Jose Mourinho takes the shackles off and we get a decent run out from Dele Alli and Gareth Bale to further boost Harry Kane and Son Heung-Min’s goal hopes.
We could even potentially welcome back the enigma that is Serge Aurier after his spell on the injury sidelines – but Giovani Lo Celso will remain out of contention for at least another couple of weeks as he comes back to fitness.
Burnley won’t be a walkover, no teams at this level are really, but again, there’s no real reason we shouldn’t be confident going into the game, we just need to ensure we turn up.
I think there is also something in the saying ‘the best form of defence is to attack’, I think this is partly the reason we looked better defensively yesterday, if we have the ball in the opposition end the defence is under less pressure and looks more composed.
I completely disagree jod.
When Jose sets us up as a mostly defensive unit. And we sit back, give up the lions share of possession and simply rely on the counter attack, or longs balls up to a solitary striker. That is when our defence has looked most vulnerable in the past couple of months. Before that, they were actually doing it very well.
But at the time (before xmas), many of us on here were saying that this probably wasn’t sustainable for very long. Meaning that the more and more we concede the ball and just sit deep, inviting pressure, the greater the chances were of us capitulating and losing more matches. And this is exactly what we have seen.
Our defence played well yesterday and Burnley did put us under a fair bit of pressure. But the key to our successful attacking football was that we started and then played most of the match with an attacking intent, more so than a sit back and mostly defend tactic. It was much more balanced. And hey presto! We win 4-0.
And I have noticed a few times this season. (WHU match for example) that when we are on the front foot and going for goals, the opposition look less likely to score themselves. And often they don’t.
It is blatantly obvious to me that we have looked a much better team, front to back, when we have more of the ball and press higher up the pitch. Or at least more control of the ball. When the balance of play is more even. When we are are prepared to take the game more to the opposition and not just sit deep… At least not in every bloody game we play. It’s all about balance.
Let’s face it, we could’ve conceded 3 yesterday and still won the match… LOL!
I will insist still, that we have good defenders and a very strong squad. And I am of the firm opinion that it has been the overwhelming negativity and lack of risk taking tactical stance from Jose, that saw us slide down the table. And not because we have such bad defenders…
I will also repeat that our defending this season is not even as bad as we think it has been. We may be sitting 8th in the EPL but only 3 teams have conceded less goals than Spurs. That is City on 16, Chelsea 25, Villa 26, and Spurs (and the Gooners) on 27…
If we hadn’t been so intent on making our defenders have to defend so bloody much for the most part, maybe that particular stat would be closer to City’s and not equal 4th with the Arsenal… Maybe!
Up the Spurs!
Or…
What TQ has just written… But with far fewer words… 😉
Interesting reports coming out of Barca this morning concerning a police raid on the club and arrests being made among the current and former board and administration level members.
Looks like we’re being Baled out at last.
Don’t start that Stan or we will be talking about his aBaleity to play lol! COYS
HT I agree that we have good defenders but not great ones as mistakes , whatever our defensive figures are , have cost us not only games but points .If we had defended better throughout the season we would have been higher in the league and had an even better goal difference . I still believe buying a quality defended would have solved several of our defensive problems .
It appears that Rodon is not considered by Mourinho or is he injured ?
Jod we displayed style yesterday which resulted in us scoring 4 goals and could have scored more . Style comes from playing good football and not expecting the defence / mid field / attackers to defend continuously by playing negative and unattractive football .
Allan, there aren’t any reports of Rodon being injured to my knowledge. Considering he was brought in under Jose’s reign we have to assume it’s not a case of him not fancying Rodon, I can only assume that he is being groomed in the background to bring his fitness levels up to PL standard, and also being coached by Ledley in the finer arts of defending, before being unleashed on a regular basis.
So it would appear many on this site think it doesn’t make any difference if the defence are doing their job properly or not, if you just go charging forward anyway the opposition won’t notice how open you are and wouldn’t be so unsporting as to hit you on the counter attack. I mean its not as if we put 4 past Everton and still lost the game because we couldn’t defend properly, oh wait a minute ….
They want to see entertaining football, results be damned…
jod, it is all about defending correctly/properly making a difference esp thus the confidence trust/built of them for the other players to do their job. COYS
jod …. I didn’t read any comments to that effect. I think everyone agrees we need to get the balance right between back line/ MF/ forwards …. and then adopt a playing system that makes it work’
Credit where it is due, Gareth Bale bossed a PL game yesterday and that’s a welcome development.
I still stand by my opinion that it’ll take more than one positive performance against Burnley to convince me that he is back to his best, but t the very least it’s a step in the right direction.
I said after the City defeat that we now had a run of winnable games. While we couldn’t get going against WHU, we certainly won convincingly yesterday, which is hopefully the first of a run of victories.
Dynamo Zagreb is surely a tie that we can approach with a fair bit of confidence as well, with a place in the quarters looking like a real possibility.
Looking at the PL table, winning our game in hand against Villa would take us within 3 points of the top 4. Funnily enough, Villa’s 2 games in hand are against us and Everton, and those 2 games will have a big say in what the top 6 looks like, as will tonight’s game between Everton and Southampton.
All in all, still lots to play for.
For once jod, it would be cool if you actually read a post properly and perhaps tried to enter into a reasonable debate on what has in reality been said. Rather than respond to what is in only your head as an opposite argument to your own. And opposed to what some one has actually written.
I didn’t say any of that did I? Never have done and never will.
My entire post was about having a balance in both defence and attack….. I’ve only said this a thousand times on here already!
As jod didn’t address his post to only me as such, and as BS used the word “they”
I should’ve written, not only have I not said any of that, but neither has anyone else… Ever!
HT …. Did you see my reply to jod?
I refer you BS, to my post to jod… 😉
Did I mention you in any of my posts on this thread, HT?
If I am addressing a post to you, or any poster in fact, that is always what I begin my post with.
It’s not all about you ;-).
While I don’t think any poster has said outright that they want the team to stop defending correctly, many have said that they want the team to play attack-minded football. However, some have said that without understanding that this comes with consequences.
Football fans often want more of everything – better attacking, better defending, better tactics, better coaching… My personal experience of playing the game for more than 3 decades (at one point, getting paid to do it), is that dedicating more effort to defending will often come at the detriment of having less energy to attack, or vice versa. Granted, PL footballers are fitter, but the general logic remains the same.
Positioning also plays a part and the higher up the pitch you are, the harder it is to track back.
It’s all well and good wishing that the team would attack more, but that is likely going to come with the downside of poorer defending – which I believe is the case jod was trying to make.
No you didn’t, BS… Which is firstly why I put up the smiley face and then why I corrected myself.
But I think it is safe to presume that when you wrote “they”, that I would be one of the “they” Seeing as I have been one of many of us that has been pleading for more entertaining football all season.
And also you have responded to me directly, with the same sort of reply, many times before.
As for Bale being fit or match fit enough to play? Have we not seen him on the bench many times this season and not even given 5 or 10 minutes. Only to see a defender come on for another defender or indeed a defender for an attacker, when we have needed goals. Or Ndombele start regularly when he was obviously not fit to last more than one half… Or Doherty play when he is on poor form and also looking less than sharp? Or Lucas play much more often than Bale when he was not contributing any goals or assists. Or Vinicius getting too little time on the pitch. And probably because he won’t be yet another willing forward being asked to defend…. And so on and so on………..
Jose is slowly but surely now doing more of what he should’ve been doing all throughout our bad patch.
And if we can turn it around in the PL and get back to the top 4. then I will credit both him and the players for it. If not, then maybe it’s because he has left it too late to do what for most of us is exactly what he should’ve been doing all along. With or without Bale and Dele. And that is be more positive and trusting in the blatantly obvious attacking prowess of our team, when playing in a more positive and front-foot fashion.
Rant Over!
Well , I think it’s always risky to presume anything, as a general rule. I wasn’t necessarily thinking of you when I wrote that initial post, but you have invited me into the discussion, so here goes.
Regarding Bale, seeing him on the bench didn’t necessarily imply that he was match fit, it merely showed that he was available to play a part in a game, even if it was merely a bit part.
Making the bench doesn’t necessarily mean you’re in top form, it merely shows that you are one of the 7 best options available at any one time. Sometimes, that means naming an unfit player on the bench, merely because all of the other options are even worse off than said unfit player… That just doesn’t make any option a great option. And I think we have been in that exact situation a few times this year.
As much as we can rue the fact that Bale has remained on the bench when we have needed goals, that could be down to a number of things.
First off, it was a testament to how little faith JM had in an unfit, low on confidence player. Which I think is fair enough.
Secondly, it’s always easy to wish for an extra attacker when you’re down by a goal, but if the result of that is conceding 2 more, what’s the point? Despite all that’s been said, we still have the 5th best GD in the PL, and Chelsea and Leicester only best us by 1 and 2 goals. Things aren’t as bad as some have portrayed them to be.
There’s always 2 ways to look at things. We can all look at the bad patch and wonder what we could have done better, or we can think that although things were bad for a few games, they could have been a lot worse with different decisions. And as long as we are there or thereabouts, JM makes a strong case for there being a method to the madness…
TQ2.. thanks, my error about thursday game.
Sanchez did look a lot better, perhaps Ledley has been intensively coaching him ?. the crunch games fulham palace will show how jose and players are connected on tactical shape and play. Two wins and we are back on track, 1 win and draw…. just about ok…any less than that trouble ahead. COYS
Hi block, the Fulham and Palace games are going to be very interesting, the former are I think undefeated in their last 5 PL games although mostly low or non scoring draws. That said I have watched some of these games and they are fighting for their PL survival with lots of passion under Scotty, they were unlucky not to beat Palace at the weekend.
Palace on the other hand have been very poor with Zaha missing with just glimpses of quality from Eze, this said they have been very fortunate, they were completely outplayed by Brighton but managed to sneak a 95th minute winner last week and held out for another fortunate result drawing 0-0 with Fulham on Sunday.
We all know full well that Bale is more than capable of playing like he did v Burnley against any other club we care to mention.
If Bale is fit and confident and getting enough regular game time, we will see him shine more often than not. And I believe that the same goes for Dele.
It seems that people think a player will just jump in and out of form. This is not so. It is likely that a player in poor form will play poorly against any team, high or low in the PL. And that a player with Bale or Dele’s talents, when finding their good form, will show it whether it’s against Marine or Man City.
We all know that when a team (or certain individuals) are not playing well, it can be against a poor team as much as against a better team…
Bale is Back! With Dele close on his trail…. If they can be given the freedom to play more often and fully express themselves on the pitch. Then they will definitely be more like their old selves on the pich… Of that, I am sure.
And Jose knows it too………
HT – I think you just hit the nail on the head there. “If Bale is fit and confident” – two big ifs.
Bale, at his best, would walk into this team, and yesterday may have been case in point.
Many fans on VS were slaughtering JM for not playing Bale earlier in the season, but maybe we ought to give credit to the people on the training pitch, who see the players daily.
JM said several times throughout the season that Bale was either lacking in match fitness or in confidence. It seems to me that the moment Bale passed the bar that JM had set in terms of fitness and confidence, he was back in the team.
And we are now seeing initial results.
Instead of criticising JM for his treatment of Bale, he ought to get credit for handling the situation as he has done, if Bale truly is back.
Jod, it is actually possible to play attacking football without leaving yourself completely open at the back, keeping the opponent under pressure actually makes it harder for them to attack you in numbers. It is how Liverpool and City have been so successful recently. The push their full backs high up the pitch with the aim of squeezing their opponents. Yes – there is a risk of the counter attack (which isn’t easy if you are under constant pressure) but the benefits should outweigh the risks, especially given the attacking talent at our disposal. I agree with HT, it would be better if you read the posts and responded to what people are actually writing. COYS
DH – it works, when you make your attacking play count. If you pressure your opponent, you’ll create chances, but you have to take them too. Which is something we have sometimes failed to do.
City and Liverpool make that work because they have world class finishers in numbers. Create enough chances and the goals will come, regardless of who is on the pitch at any time. Can we say the same thing?
Looking at our goals scorers, Kane has scored 14 PL goals so far, Son 13, and no other player has cracked 5 goals (we’ve got 3 players tied for 3rd, with 3 goals each, in Moura, Bale (yesterday’s goals included) and Tanguy). We just don’t spread the goals around like other teams do, which means that if one or both of our reliable sources for goals is missing, having an attacking game plan is going to be hit and miss (quite literally).
I forgot to say – Bale is back. I have to admit I had written him off after that pitiful display against Brighton a few weeks ago. For me the most exciting part of his performance was not so much the goals and the 60 yard assist for Harry Kane, it was the moment in the first half when he skinned the Burnley full back with a burst of pace. I didn’t think we would see that again. I was at the Lane when he tore Inter Milan apart – what an amazing night. I don’t think we will see those levels again but it is good to know it is still there. And what a wand of a left foot he still has. hopefully there will be several more goals and assists from him.
DH …. I was going to mention that run Bale made in an earlier comment. Seeing that, I thought it just might all work out after all. It was a very telling moment.
I don’t remember reading any comments on this site that called for all out attacking at the expense of playing defence. I do remember lots of comments that complained about playing defense at the expense of any attack whatsoever. The problem with the way JM so often sets things up is that we play no attack at all, with a full 10 players committed solely to defense. What kind of supporter can enthuse about setting things up so that the best possible outcome is a scoreless draw? But, can anyone point to comments that called for committing 10 players to attack and none to covering the defence? These are outlandish claims that remind one of an attack by a politician. Let’s leave the leave taking from the truth to the politicians.
There is always going to be negativity/positivity on VS, its about opinions and we all do not see things the same, which in turn makes it interesting, ok! each and everyone of us has raised their eyes to the sky, growled, smiled, grinned nodding heads in agreement or generally pissed ourselves laughing at posts from everyone on here, that’s life and opinions.
Now then, “Bale is back” for me not 100% maybe 90%, cos he did fail a couple of time yesterday hahaha!
Dele, getting there which is excellent for the team and us.
LoCelso back in training, another excellence for us.
Maura is improving, competition me thinks.
Sanchez what a game he had yesterday, excellent, learning, I think so.
Even Aurier another playing good game, probably his best I have witnessed
Son another goodish game, not sure about his heading/tackling, becoming a brilliant assister as well as a goal threat and not forgetting constantly moving.
For me now, JM has a job to do, picking the right/suitable team for next side we are to play, can only mean good things.
If you really watched the body language yesterday the Spurs players, every last one and his dog were ooozing confidence, it stood out a mile…
Everybody moving, wanting the ball, helping their team mates out.
Pressing our opponents constantly.
There was even dare I say it “my turn to score” lol!
All playing with huge grins on their boatraces
They, every man jack of them looked like a happy team
Are Spurs back, I certainly hope so, thus next! bring em on. COYS
BelgiunSpur – good point re our goalscorers. We need more people to step up. Hopefully Bale, Moura, Lamela and Dele when they play and Tangay can start contributing more. good that we got four goals yesterday and only one was scored by Bale/Son. also our goal last week was scored by Moura. COYS
Allowing yourself to be constantly put under pressure in defence is a mugs game even for the best defenders. It’s a bit like interrogation, no matter how well drilled you are if you are subjected to sufficient pressure you will eventually break. It has certainly been this way with our defence in some games. Yesterdays game showed how, by relieving this pressure by your own attacking intent allows the defence to reform and compose itself ready for the next attack.
Given our lack of attacking football in so many PL games this season. We still see Son and Bale at the top of the PL goal scoring charts. Kane with 14 and not far behind Salah at the very top, who has 17. Son has 13.
And given that Vinicius and Bale have barely played at all and probably have only a couple of full games between them… Bale has a total (across all comps) of 8 goals and 5 assists in just 24 appearances.
Vinicius in just 18 appearances has 9 goals, 3 assists.
If these guys play enough games in which we attack enough, they will often score…. And now Moura has at last started chipping in too… I know Dele will also score a few. Ndombele too, has it in him…. And Sissoko has a 100% of his shots on target this season with a 50% scoring to shots ratio. Which is better then either of the above guys… He has had two shots. Both on target, scoring one! 🙂
Let them attack Jose and the goals will come. And the defenders will defend less and probably therefore concede less…
Jesus! Imagine yourself as a defender and you have Kane, Son, Bale, Dele and Ndombele with freedom and confidence, coming at you from all angles, virtually non stop.?! Killer! And the rather pacey subs bench would worry you too when you’re then knackered from chasing shadows for the whole game…
Well, I can dream… But it’s not so much fantasy football as a very likely happening, IMHO… If I’m to be on the front foot too and not digging myself a huge defensive hole!