With Tottenham Hotspur firing themselves past Pellets in our midweek Europa encounter, Spurs now know we will face Dinamo Zagreb in the Round of 16 but before we can get carried away with that, we will be looking to get our Premier League form back on track when we welcome Sean Dyche’s Burnley battlers to White Hart Lane this coming Sunday.
With five defeats in our last six games, plenty of confidence can be taken from Wednesday’s clash and plenty of Spurs fans will be hoping manager Jose Mourinho takes the shackles off and we get a decent run out from Dele Alli and Gareth Bale to further boost Harry Kane and Son Heung-Min’s goal hopes.
We could even potentially welcome back the enigma that is Serge Aurier after his spell on the injury sidelines – but Giovani Lo Celso will remain out of contention for at least another couple of weeks as he comes back to fitness.
Burnley won’t be a walkover, no teams at this level are really, but again, there’s no real reason we shouldn’t be confident going into the game, we just need to ensure we turn up.
BS Considering our defensive and poor style of play recently it is surprising to note the Kane and Son stats .
However if Mourinho had developed a more attacking style of play rather than just relying on Son’s speed to pick up through balls then we might have seen other players scoring more ?
Hopefully if the Bale factor can kick in then with his vision and the problem s he can cause for opposition defences then spaces will open up for others to add hopefully to their seasons tally .
A big if Allan, which nobody can verify.
It has been announced UEFA that our tie against Zagreb has been reversed because there is a concern that Arsenal will be at home on the same day. Doh…………why is that a problem when no fans are attending?
I am all for using stats to support an argument HT, but I think this is the prime example of the risk of using stats without context.
Taken at face value, one can look at Vinicius’ stats and conclude that 9 goals and 3 assists in 18 apps is a great return.
Diving into those stats deeper will show that those 9 goals consist of:
– a hat trick against amateurs Marine,
– 3 goals in 2 games against Wolfsberger (According to Tim Sherwood, a League One team at best)
– 2 goals against Ludogorets Razgrad
– a goal against Antwerp
The assists came against Ludogorets Razgrad and LASK.
What the stats don’t show is that in 160 minutes of PL football across 6 appearances (1 start), Vinicius hasn’t scored or assisted.
This is not to say that Vinicius is a bad player, or can’t be a great player one day. It merely shows that at present, nobody can make the case for him being a reliable source of goals against tougher opposition, going forward.
BS …. But, like everyone else, you are using stats to suit your argument. What the stats also fail to say is that Vinicius has never been given a string of games to gain the kind of momentum all strikers require. That has been true of many ‘support strikers’ we’ve brought in over the last few years. It’s always been an issue. I would suggest that his goal and assist returns are remarkably good given his situation.
Geof – I beg to differ.
First of all, I wasn’t making an argument in the first place. My opinion is that the jury is still out.
Second, you say that all strikers require a run of games to perform, which just isn’t true. Players like OGS for Man U made a career for themselves as a “super sub”, and I remember Jermain Defoe playing that role in our squad quite well.
If we have had issues with this in recent years, that is down to the club’s inability to identify, or pay for, players who can excel in that role.
BS It is a pity that in reality Mourinho has played a negative style of football with attacking players defending which has resulted in the stats you have quoted . At least give all the attackers a chance to score .
Allan – is it down to tactics, or individual skills? Kane and Son aren’t exactly finding it difficult to score in JM’s system.
I can take the point that Kane is a world class player who would score in any system. But take Son: he’s never scored more than he is today.
So are tactics really all of the problem?
HT I think your comment earlier re – balance just about nailed it not just balance through the 11 on a particular game, but balance throughout the season as to which 11 we put out game by game.
As I said before Fergie was a master of this, playing 1 up front in an endeavour not to lose first then “nick the game” by an odd goal. For example would it be a better balance to play a bit more defensively against Man C away than playing offensively at home to Burnley.
What I do know is that we had gotten into a routine of setting up defensively all over the Christmas and New Year period, whether enforced by injury or a tactical move to try to manage the team through this time, either way it was pretty disastrous for us where we gained around 15 out of a possible 40 points.
A good deal of the goals we have conceded this year have been from set pieces, free kicks, pens, which are likely to be conceded if we concede possession and indeed ground to the opposition.
What I can say re yesterday is that we look much better with Bale in our team than out of it.
And with Bergs on the bench.
JM was stating in his post match re Bale that he let Bale “manage” his own comeback and actually took little credit for it.
Virtually every one has had some brilliant input on this thread.
I just hope this is our turning point. COYS.
I wonder why Bale wasn’t playing during all those weeks of bus parking that gained us a drop from 1st place to 10th place. After all, when he came to us originally from Southampton he was not a wing on the right side but a left back. He could have been the priciest LB in Spurs history under JM. Opportunity wasted.
wasn’t it ‘Arry “Total” Redknob who converted Bale from LB to an attacking wing? Such a waste of talent.
Of course, we all know that Benny Assou-Ekotto was our LB then, so what chance did someone like Gareth Bale have to play? Poor man lost his position and wasted his career moving forward.
Or was it ‘Arry “Total” Knobred? Only a total knobred would think to turn Gareth Bale into an attacker. A natural LB. Perfect for a bus parking team.
BS didn’t think it was at all necessary to point out which matches exactly Bale and Vinicius scored and assisted in. As we all already will know.
I just made the point that they have played very few entire matches. And yet have a good assist and goal scoring stats, all things considered. And they do. This for me is a positive.
What would be a negative is if Vinicius for instance, wasn’t scoring against the likes of Marine etc. He can ‘t score goals in matches he isn’t playing in. And 1 start in the PL without scoring is not of course an indicator that he won’t ever score in the PL.
Personally, I think if he was given an extended run. that he would get his fair share of goals. But this seems unlikely to happen.
He will probably not now get as much opportunity in the EL either. So perhaps we shouldn’t ever bother with back-ups for Kane. And for all the reasons that some of us have pointed out on here, in the past.
I read somewhere a few days ago, a supporter saying that he is not impressed with Vinicius because he doesn’t ever look like a player that can knock Kane off his perch. I think we might need to spend a hell of a lot of money to do that.
If Kane is to be knocked off his perch, I suppose there is always the young Parrott in waiting.
HT, Kane, perch, Parrot….is there fishing in there somewhere lol!
Vinicius or Sid Vivious, for me, if he is happy in himself, as in being a bit part player, is the striker for us, learning all the time, very much different to “Our Arry” but I think you can compare him to Clive Allen, comes alive in the box, as you can see, I rate him, ok yes! he probably needs more game time, we will just have to wait and see if/when that occurs. COYS
HT – that’s a personal opinion, but I am afraid that it isn’t supported by facts at this stage. It’s a bet on the player’s potential, which may or may not come off.
What worries me with Vinicius is that his goals come in bunches against poor opposition, and he is silent against better defenders. If he was scoring the odd goal here and there no matter the opponent, I could see you point. But currently there is a huge discrepancy in his stats based on the quality of the opponent, which is currently a worry for me.
When I compare that to the previous incumbent, Fernando Llorente, his stats were less eye-catching, but he could score against anyone.
Like DH (I think) I was also massively impressed by Bale’s run on the right wing and his second run to receive the ball from Sonny although the move ended in a miss. But it shows that he can still do it, if not as often, and his skill with the ball at his feet be it shooting, passing, or crossing, he just seems to almost be like a dancer and appears to have that extra “second” when choosing what to do.
I’d rather have a 75% Bale than 100% Bergs.
Hi Niall. Your point about the football being more balanced from game to game. Exactly!
We had got into a rut of playing over-defensively, regardless of the opposition. This was plain to see.
Hopefully, Jose has now seen the light. We’ll see.
HT, JM wise hopefully its “old dog new tricks” and not “Leopards/spots” scenarios. COYS
Just for the record:
If we were to see Spurs playing carefree, open, attacking and highly entertaining football week in week out. And yet we were losing regularly because we were neglecting to defend very well. I wouldn’t be happy.
But if it saw us in. exactly the same PL position, same points etc… Then at least we wouldn’t have been bored silly along the way.
But I would definitely be questioning Jose’s tactics all the same. Albeit from the opposite direction to what we have been seeing.
Under MP for a good while, when Spurs were at their most exciting for many a year, our defending was as good as our attack. We conceded very few goals and yet we scored plenty too… Or have we forgotten this?
We still have the players to achieve this imo… And a manager that should be able to get them to achieve something similar. Jose has had long enough. I mean how long does he need?
Spurs 115 – opponents 55!` That’s the ‘do and dare’ Spurs kind of football. 55 goals against during a season may seem like poor defending but when you sit that beside 115 goals scored; the result is a very entertaining and successful season.
Geofspurs…..exactly! that’s my way of thinking, always score more goals than your opponents thus, a WIN! very simple really lol! COYS
Cheers Geof. Mines a double!
HT, your is a double, Spurs are after a Double this season also, LC & Europa, COYS
HT … lol
HT great minds and all that. 😉
BS, you said a few weeks ago you don’t like coming on this sure as much because of the infighting, but we won 4 -0 not one of your post have been about the good result, its just been to attack other posters for wanting attacking football…when we lose you always want to point to the positives but when you win you want to focus on something negative.
Marky – My very first post after the game on this thread said 2 things: I gave credit to Bale for having a good game, and I pointed out that this positive result meant there was still lots to play for this season. If you don’t think those 2 statements are positive, you must struggle with the English language.
I don’t think disagreeing with someone else, when it comes to how convincing a performance was, is anywhere equal to “attacking another poster”, but to each their own. It seems you are the one trying to cause controversy when there is none to be had.
I just personally think a lot of fans on VS are hugely fickle and change opinions about players/managers far too quickly, and I think that worth pointing out.