So it’s that time of the week again and Tottenham Hotspur fans can look forward to another Europa League evening at White Hart Lane. Our task this week is to simply beat Royal Antwerp and take our place at the top of Group J.
Easier said than done with the way our form has wobbled in Europe with manager Jose Mourinho taking full advantage to rotate the first team squad and give other players minutes as well as resting others, and we know Antwerp won’t be a rollover following our 1-0 defeat to them back at the end of October in the away leg.
Home comforts, along with a significant morale boost from last weekend’s comfortable victory over North London Rivals Arsenal – as well as our little gap at the top of the Premier League table – should play in our advantage though.
Injury wise, I believe Erik Lamela remains out, but Tanguy Ndombele could come back into contention for this one.
Royal Antwerp
Win
Draw
Lose
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Thanks for the article Danny.
There isn’t any pressure on either side as we have both qualified, short of us losing heavily and LASK winning by a good margin to overturn a goal difference of 11 in our favour. The game will be all about whether one side or the other wants to top the group.
If we can win by 2 don’t we win the group ?
How vital is it that we top the table ?
I suppose if we end up 2nd place we will face the ‘stronger ‘ sides ?
Surely the players will be up for this one if not only to regain some pride from the poor away performances but also to finish top ?
Again I shall be watching with optimism and hope the guys ,whoever picked , will play some good footie putting on the style .
I’m guessing but think we would have a 2 in 3 chance of facing a club dropping out of the CL if we finish second in the group.
It’s a simple thing really. We play to win. And whatever happens, happens. We still play to win whoever we have to face after this one. And surely, as recent finalists in the CL and whilst sitting top of the PL., shouldn’t we be confident in beating any other top team in Europe? And any one that may or may not have come down from the CL? Or is it that supporters still feel that we are not really good enough.
It’s funny, but whilst sitting at the top of the PL and after our recent good results vs Chelsea, City and Arsenal, I’m reading and hearing more and more complaints about our overly defensive style of football. And no, the complaints aren’t ignoring the joy of winning these matches. But are more to do with focussing on the lack of joy, when watching.
And so, as this is soon to be a knock-out competition, should we now start to be more positive in our play? Or do we continue to get away with being not really good enough. Not really motivated.
Will the cheers of the two thousand (privileged) stadium supporters soon turn to some boos and jeers?
I ask, because after the initial singing and obvious excitement of being back in the stadium and then the obvious joy of the 1st half in the Arsenal match and 2-0 lead. The crowd were pretty quiet in the second half… Nothing much to sing about, perhaps?
And so, even though I may have been okay with it on the day vs the Gooners, how long does this last for whilst I see this more negative and non-progressive approach to football play out? Because it still seems to me that it can only be seen as satisfactory to continue watching, if we then win something.
And so I ask once again. In the hope that someone can actually answer such a simple question. What if we don’t win anything with Jose? Is it still worth it in the end? Is it worth putting up with for an entire season when just one losing match could be the difference between winning a trophy or not at the end of it all.
I’ll emphasise this again, players want to enjoy their football too. They enjoy winning of course and they love winners medals. But they still want to enjoy their day-job whilst getting there. They also want to see supporters happy and hear them cheering. Not bored and booing…
Im not talking about the winning or the losing that may or may not happen yet, sometime in the future. I’m talking about the here and now and how it feels.
I’m thinking about how people like Allan feel and how the many more Spurs supporters are feeling right now. You know, the ones that like to have a good time watching Spurs whilst hopefully going on to win a trophy. As opposed to not having much of a good time watching and still not knowing if there will indeed be a trophy at the end of it all…
It’s funny, because I’m actually quite liking what I’m seeing with Spurs right now. But I’m still reading comments from supporters that say It’s “ugly football”. “Negative”. “Boring”. “Pragmatic”. “Necessary”… Whilst justifying all of that… And that is what I don’t get. When the words being used, all have negative connotations, even from those that support Jose’s tactics and style.
That is sad… You don’t even enjoy what your seeing and see it negatively… But back it up anyway… Just in case we get a trophy sometime soon… Sad.
But, we probably will win one soon anyway… So, cheer up and enjoy the game, just for what it is right now… Win, Lose or Draw….. Excite, Entertain or Bore… 🙂
I mean… we do all know that winning football really doesn’t have to be boring football……. Don’t we?
So whilst this pragmatic Jose style is working I’m okay and I’m happy. But it can’t continue like this forever guys. It will go wrong. It won’t last. So enjoy. Don’t just call it necessary football. Call it enjoyable football. Don’t just call it “winning” football. Call it a joy to behold…….. Have fun! Sing! Cheer! Love football, love Spurs!
But none of this is merely “necessary” football. It’s just another way of winning or losing……….. And many still do not like it.
I understand them well. But I don’t really get those that praise it but admit that for them that it’s dull but that they can put up with it etc… That to me, is funny. Funny but sad!
And if we lose playing this Jose way, then we lose…….. And nothing really changes……
Up the Spurs!
Thanks yet again for the post Danny.
HT interesting post just now.
I think the issue comes from comparing how we played under Poch the high press plenty of possession/shots on goals, the nearly nights playing attractive football. We “almost won the league”
Almost won the CL.
Now we need to factor in the efficient /pragmatic JM approach and for many this is hard to accept.
For me whilst not quite like you in enjoying the performance.
I am liking and respecting it and strangely looking forward to our next game(S).
Sometimes it’s actually after the game when you look back(for instance) at the likes of the Arsenal and Man C games just how much we controlled the game.
I wrote in an earlier thread about the subs used, but those on the bench who could’ve been used if Arsenal actually managed to somehow score.
For me I was on the fence initially and prepared to give it a go, you were a bit behind me at that time, now perhaps you are in front with this process.
As for the players, I think they are enjoying playing as they are, it’s different, they’re starting to dictate games.
They are getting easier on the eye, I think this year just as in life, we need to accept a new normal.
Thanks Niall for responding with a good and well thought out answer…
But I understand exactly where you’re coming from with this. As I do with Allan’s recent P’sOV. It’s the supporters that were always pro-Jose and always defensive about his ways and means that kind of confuse me.
I was one of those that was adamant that I didn’t ever want him at the club. And yet somehow he has won me around. I’m actually liking it! What is wrong with me? But even strong supporters of Jose’s ways will say just sack him if he doesn’t win anything. And yet there are many supporters that still lament about losing Pochettino, despite not having won anything after 5 full seasons… It really is just about winning with Jose it seems, even for his supporters. And I will feel sad for those who just say it’s the be all and end all with JM, if it doesn’t then happen. As surely they will be more disappointed than ever.
You know every time I ask this or a similar question “What do we then think of the football, if we don’t get to win anything with Jose”, jod pops up, calls me an idiot and insists that I want Jose to fail… Fact is, he is the one manager that needs to succeed asap at Spurs more than any other. And I’m much more concerned about not winning with him than I ever was with Pochettino……. Please Jose, WIN! ….. LOL!
I don’t personally see it and call it as being negative football at the moment. Because the team and the players look to be enjoying themselves. They are happy to be at the top in the way they have got there. And a happy team is a winning team, especially with our top talent. It’s working and, that is not a negative if that is the aim… Which of course it is.
So, all you Jose lovers, admirers, fans and worshippers. Why are you still justifying your own sweet boredom? I don’t get it! I don’t find it boring! It’s fascinating. Intriguing. And we are top of the PL! Haha! This is enjoyable, no?
Even Jose is laughing, smiling and happy with the football and with Spurs!
Please, don’t anyone tell me that it’s ugly and necessary football. Tell me it’s beautiful. Tell me it’s great!
HT…..I have just read your posts, got me thinking and I mean thinking, they were both immense.
At the start I was anti JM, then I sat on the fence, normal I suppose lol!, but now I am clearly on his side, I have been watching/witnessing a Team/side emerge, a caterpillar into a beautiful Ladybird, a re-birth if you like, yes its different to what a lot expect, that is the Spurs way, but I must admit I enjoying watching the “Art of defending”, it is beautiful, and the sublime prowess in our elegant fast attacking football.
I think there is more chance of us winning a Trophy the way we are playing, hard to beat and difficult to score against, thus making me very excited and confident, but if we don’t win out, its alas! so be it, because any damm thing can happen, go against you, bad luck etc, get my drift.
You say about everyone, JM/the team, laughing, well so am I, the same as all my Spurs mates. COYS
Oh yes! regards Royal Antwerp, we will win, simple as that. COYS
We’ve been the nearly team for quite a few seasons now. For most of those seasons, although there was no silverware at the end of them, most supporters would have enjoyed and been entertained by the performances on the pitch.
As HT says, it will be interesting to see how this season ends in terms of trophies, and then see how supporters review it and what their feelings are about the style of football being presented to us.
Great result on Sunday – long may they continue hopefully!
Good solid defending (even Aurier and credit where it’s due here as he’s been RB against Utd, City, Chelskia and Arseanal and that’s 3 wins, 1 draw and only 1 goal conceeded) and what can anyone say about Sonny and HK10 – absolutely ridiculous but I’ve said for a long while that Sonny was world class and also most recently that HK10 is arguably at the moment (especially in current form) the best striker even player in the World let alone the Prem so says it all really!
Tomorrow we obviously defo need to rotate and certain players really need minutes also so good opportunity to fulfill this:
Hart, Fagan-Walcott, Davy, Tanganga, Cirkin, Winks, White, Dele, Clarke, Bale and Vinny.
For 8 days from Sunday we’ve got Palace away, Liverpool away and Leicester at home – so we need the heavy hitters resting obviously tomorrow night (especially after the recent run of games v City, Chelskia and Arseanal all in the Prem) and it’s also a good opportunity to help fire up the likes of Hart, Davy, Tanganga, Winks, Bale, Vinny and maybe even Dele as they could very easily most if not all be needed in those games in 8 days coming and then there’s the Stoke game in the QF of CC and then (the actual not as heavy as usual luckily) Xmas schedule later this month – I mean there’s actually a decent space-out for us between Wolves, Fulham and Leeds – at least minimum we get a full 2 days rest in between each one as opposed to having to play 2 games in literally 3 days with only 1 days rest in between as is normally the case around Xmas and Boxing Day and New Year’s, etc – it could make quite a difference to our results and we’ve also got a bigger, better squad now to cope more and we’re doing well on top of that – so all should bode well really and most hopefully!
Anyway off again – will try to check back for replies, etc and maybe try to post again at the weekend or so!
I believe what ended costing MP his job wasn’t the lack of trophies, but the horrible run of form from Jan 2019 onwards. It seems some players stopped playing for him. I am fairly sure MP would still be there had we finished in the top 4 under him last year.
And I think the same will apply to Jose. As long as he finishes in the top 4, trophy or no trophy he will keep his job. That seems to be the line Levy has drawn.
So if we play horribly under Jose but finish in the top 4, Levy won’t care as the money will come in. I doubt Jose will get the sack as long as the team is in the CL.
As for Antwerp tomorrow, finishing second would basically mean facing either the dropouts from the CL (depending on their UEFA coefficient, I believe) or an EL group winner. Currently, EL group winners could include the likes of Roma, Bayer Leverkusen, Benfica, Napoli, AC Milan, Villareal, or Hoffenheim, among others (some smaller teams too). Some of those names might be bigger challenges than having to face, say Olympiakos from the CL.
Many questions here. Should we fear any of those teams in the round of 32, or do we back ourselves to beat most of those potential opponents? Wht’s to say that we won’t have to play some of those eams just one round later – or do we hope for upsets in the round of 32 and a kinder draw for the round of 16?
Personally, I think Jose would have played a strong team if we weren’t top of the PL table. but he’ll know all to well that he currently holds the high ground in the PL and it’s his position to lose. I think we’ll rotate for Antwerp – and live with the decision, but play a very strong team in the round of 32 if the opponent warrants it.
There are some interesting reports from a recent meeting between board members and the THST regarding MP. It seems that the question was asked of the board as to how we have managed to support Jose (particularly in the summer transfer window) while we appeared not to support MP in the same way.
I haven’t read the report myself but it would appear that much of the problem lay with MP as has often been speculated on here and in the press generally. It could make for interesting reading for anyone who can spare the time, it’s possible that this issue played a significant part in the decision to sack MP.
BelgianSpur – Interesting comments, Arsene Wenger was derided for saying finishing in the top 4 was the equivalent of a trophy but from a financial viewpoint it really is. With the losses all clubs have suffered with the pandemic and our need to pay for the stadium Levy wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t focus on the numbers. However I doubt it would satisfy Mourinho. He’s been a winner pretty much everywhere and will want to win things at Spurs.
Morning/After non all by the time you get this.
HT you asked where we are even if JM doesn’t win anything.
Believe it or not, the way we are playing, I can’t contemplate that.
I think we are very close to to at least the Carabo Cup.
Just looking even if we win nothing, we have an excellent (young) squad put together, don’t forget the likes of Clarke, Skipp, Sess, perhaps Parrot for the future.
The thing is now when I watch us, I’m sort of thinking “bring it on” Coz we’ll defend it and stick two or 3 up the other end, and as I said strangely enjoying as PY said” the art of defending”
We are largely limiting teams to 2 or 3 chances in a game.
It’s taking pens, the odd mistake and the odd worlide to score against us.
But if JM left tomorrow, I think we are still in a very strong, competitive position.
BS 100%
Re your thoughts on team selection.
Anyone read the item on “Kessie to Spurs” I only suggested his name about 4 months ago. 😉
Lot of points made on this thread… We have watched spurs playing good entertaining football under poch, yet we did not win any trophies. That is the main thing any of the players want to do, and why rumours were abound HK10 leaving, same for ericsen etc. I have been a fan who wants jose to win silverware with spurs, and we will do so, with his effective tactical systems. BUT if we dont a top 4 finish will happen, and we move into 2021 season fully prepared to win silverware.
Looking at Jose’s track record over 20 years he has won major trophies at every club he has been head coach. so its like backing the favourite horse who has a winning history in the Derby, its odds on he will win again, if not a placing (top 4 PL) will be assured. COYS
jod – While I agree that in this particular economic context, the numbers take on a far more important significance, it should also be pointed out that Levy has always really just been about the numbers, even before Covid.
So while that approach is perfectly acceptable/understandable right now, it also shines a negative light on his reluctance to back the team in previous years.
TQ2Spurs might object and point out that our lack of spending in recent years was partly due to MP. I take the point, but I will also point out that several Spurs managers before MP complained about not being backed, so there must also be some truth in the opinion that Levy has sometimes been tight with money.
Anyways, let’s not make this thread about Levy. Some team news for tomorrow:
Aurier is out, PEH is rested. Ndomebele is fit to play but Lamela could be a little longer with Mourinho hoping to have him back for January.
Jose’s assessment of our EL campaign so far “”We did our job, we could do better, we could do worse. In one game at home, with 2,000 fans behind us we have the chance to win the group”.
On the importance of winning tomorrow: “I don’t think we should be afraid of playing any team in the next phase, but normally the teams who win groups are the best team, so if you can avoid them in the next stage it is an advantage. The teams that drop from the Champions League are strong teams and normally they don’t belong to that level of the Europa League”.
It sounds like he is going to field a strong team after all.
BS…..I don’t want to dwell on Levy either but would just point out that our circumstances changed significantly moving away from the constraints of the old stadium (in respect of competing on player wages particularly) so it’s maybe unfair to try to compare transfer activity now to pre-MP.
TQ2Spurs – The new stadium is a game changer for the future, no doubt about it, and it will eventually help us compete on player wages etc. But right now, it’s a huge financial burden (due to the debt) while offering no new opportunities for income due to Covid.
It could be argued that the old stadium, which had long been paid for, was actually less of a burden than the current one is at present (although I admit that this is a very temporary take), and the situation could have/should have allowed for more spending, proportionally.
Surprisingly, however, despite the fact that our debt has skyrocketed and that we currently have less opprtunities for matchday income than ever, our spending on transfers has actually increased recently. Which tells me that context only tells part of the story, and Levy’s willingness to back certain managers must have also factored in his decision-making.
I’m sure we can go back and forth on Levy’s spending habits (or lack thereof) for the last 20 years, and the reasons justifying them. There are probably valid points to be made on either side of the discussion, and in the end, I think that depending on how one feels about Levy in general, not much we can write is likely to sway opinions from one side to the other.
Rightly or wrongly, some Spurs fans will probably never be happy with Levy at the helm. For the “ENIC Out” people, the harm is done and even if Levy finally delivers a trophy this year or next, they will still point to the fact that we went far too long without one. I don’t think there is any going back.
And for the ENIC backers, their patience is finally rewarded.
Short of us winning multiple titles in a short period of time, thereby making it impossible for any Spurs fan to deny that ENIC presided over the club’s most successful period, I don’t think those 2 opposing points of view will ever be reconciled.
(I broke my own rule there… But I really, truly didn’t want to make this thread about Levy – I promise)
BS…….as someone now retired but having spent many years in business management, but also being a Spurs fan of 60 years standing, I like to think I take a fairly balanced view. :- )
“The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It is nothing of the kind. The game is about glory, it is about doing things in style and with a flourish, about going out and beating the lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom.” Our Danny Blanchflower. It matters how one wins.