Is it just me or does it feel like this end of March international break has gone on forever. Never fear though, there’s only a few sleeps left until Tottenham Hotspur make the trip up to St James’ Park to face Steve Bruce’s battling Newcastle United side.
Unless I’ve missed something during my little Vital Spurs hiatus as I’m not a huge international fan, short of maybe some tiredness I don’t believe any players will return worse for wear and that should give us a decent chance to make it back to back Premier League wins again after yet another recent wobble in our form and performance levels that also saw us booted out of the Europa League.
Manager Jose Mourinho will be unable to call on Ben Davies, but we’ll have to see what the later injury update says when it comes to Son Heung-Min, Matt Doherty and Sergio Reguilon. Erik Lamela will return following suspension.
17th placed Newcastle might not have won in their last five, but they are keeping their heads above the drain and have proven tricky for plenty of sides this year, even if they aren’t exactly potent or that threatening on the attack.
As ever though, this is the sort of side that on paper we know we are capable of blowing away, yet we all season long it’s the kind of game that has been our Achilles heel and we’ve struggled to perform in.
All eyes to Sunday as we can still end what was once a promising 2020/21 campaign on a high and with something to cheer about.
Jod, that is just plain rubbish. Of course all Spurs supporters will care about winning. Football is all about winning football matches. This is more than obvious. We can win or we can draw or we can lose. But not one of us thinks that drawing or losing are the preferred options! Surprise, surprise!
What many of us would prefer to see, is matches that are won, playing a more exciting and entertaining form of football than our current manager is now known for.
And then to suggest that we are a somehow a different breed from Man U and Pool supporters, for instance, is ridiculous. There will be some from those clubs that really only care about winning and there will be others that care equally about how they win and the style of football being played. It will be the same for football supporters, the world over…
And, in case you haven’t noticed, apart from a couple of matches this season, there haven’t been any supporters in the grounds to influence the players, team and manager, either way…
But, losing or drawing is so obviously more acceptable to any supporter, if the football is good, as opposed to it being poor…
And winning is so much more fun when done in a certain, entertaining and positive style, than when it’s done in a dull and negative fashion… This is also more than obvious to so many of us……
Then again, maybe Man City (for instance) would be even better still, if they were dull and uninspiring with their ‘winning’ football. And maybe their supporters would also prefer it that way, but as long as they can just keep winning….. LOL!
Some good points here folks.
I see where you’re coming from HT and agree to an extent. But it is amazing that people can read the same post and see it different ways, I was looking at Jods post from a perspective where we have always played in a cavalier way which at times cost us, and I suppose I look at the likes of the Everton game, and I think this is where we differ from the man U /Pool fans of this world, I was entertained and happy about how we played even tho we lost, we played the Spurs way, however for those supporters, and I know plenty, it doesn’t matter if they win by a DODGEY pen or an OG, for them it’s the win.
So what I read from Jod was, that yes whilst we don’t lose our want for entertainment, we should actually be like Man C be entertaining but also dig in and win, get that mentality at our club.
I’m probably wrong, as usual, I’m going back to read what he sais again. 🙂
Niall, you are not wrong with your opinion just because it is different to mine for example… 😉
But, jod does have a habit of writing stuff about what other posters have said that is totally wrong.
And he has said the same so many times. That there are supporters that don ‘t care about winning or not, just as long as we play pretty, entertaining or just very good football, period.
And no matter what I or anyone else writes to counter this, he insists that it is so…. But I have never personally said that I don’t care about winning (or not), as long as the football is pretty.
We all want Spurs to win. Of course we do. I hate losing. I hate Spurs losing. It’s just that if we don ‘t win, it is much more palatable, when playing to win and also playing well. This is not a crime to want this. It is not a sin.
And, it has nothing to do with a ‘Spurs(ey) culture’. After all, there are several posters on here, such as jod and others that have often said that they don’t care how we win, as long as we win. Just like there will be many, many supporters of other clubs that will say the same as him but also many that will also care very much about how they win.
And that most definitely counts for Pool and United supporters as well. Both of those clubs (as with Spurs) have a history of playing good and entertaining football during their full footballing history. And most of their proud supporters on the whole, will recognise this.
But no supporter likes losing. And when a club is losing a lot, then many supporters will definitely resort to saying we need to just start winning, any old how. Especially if they support Pool or United. After all, they have won more than most, between them. But regardless of this, they will always prefer to win. Of course they will.
But whatever, I know full well that when Jose was at MU, a lot of MU supporters were not at all happy with what they saw on the pitch. Win or lose.
Surely if the choice is between losing and not being at all entertained, or losing whilst playing great football., it’s the latter that is preferable? But this has nothing at all to do with not caring if we win or if we lose.
Me, I want us to win whether we play well or not. This is obvious. As I have no control whatsoever about how we win. or lose as far as the tactics that are employed by the manager, or the general skills and attitude of the players in any given match.
Winning whilst playing poorly is definitely better than losing playing poorly. But it is certainly not preferable…
It is very simple for me. My preference is to watch Spurs playing good football. This doesn’t mean “pretty” football.
I don’t desire an endless stream of rabona’s , nutmegs, scissor-kicks, chips, flicks and tricks. These are moments of magic, if you like. One-off bits of skill that do give joy and entertainment. But they do not necessarily equate to a football team playing what I deem to be good football.
Clever tactics, inspiring teamwork, with a fine balance from front to back are what I find important and dare I say, entertaining. A team that can work well as an efficient and well disciplined unit. Fighting and playing for each other. And always with the will and spirit to win. This will do me me just fine. And if the team has flair players in it as do Spurs, then the magic will come anyway.
But if the team looks disjointed, unorganised and devoid of passion and togetherness, then this will not do it for me, even if we do see the odd moment of magic from an individual.
A good solid team performance with some moments of magic thrown in is ideal…… But I am a realist. And in my sense of what is real this season for Spurs… We are seeing a lot less of what is good imo, than we are seeing that is poor……… And it bugs me! So sue me! 😉
Good Post HT,
I was just thinking on my own and several people’s comments after the Everton game, I think we had played so poorly after Christmas that we (many of us) praised the performance over the result.
I will say this of JM, he did actually inherit a poorly playing team prior to his arrival, Man U were a bloody awful watch under Van Gaal as well.
But he has done little to turn our fortunes around, and I suppose like, Jod, or PY, TQ, Stan, and many others here, including you and I, we are all looking for reasons why we can’t find solution to our current malaise, its not that we’re actually in a poor position (table wise), it’s just we’re missing that vital something, at times it seems to “click” then disappears again as quickly.
Is it the owners?
Is it the manager?
Is it our training methods and tactics?
Is it our recruitment?
Could actually be the squad mentality and confidence.
Are we as supporters expecting too much from a team in transition.
Or is all of the above plus more.
Like you HT I want to win and win well, I don’t want it all but I want some.
Is JM for all his accolades a good fit for Spurs, I don’t think it, is he totally to blame (for me no)
Thankfully m8 you and I don’t need to come up with the solutions.
A team can play ugly and lose or it can play beautifully and lose. Better to play beautifully and lose than to play ugly and lose.
A team can play ugly and win or can play beautifully and win. Better to play beautifully and win.
Winning is better than losing, all other things being equal. But is an ugly win necessarily better than a beautiful loss? That’s up for debate, I suppose. Depends of the nature of the ugliness, doesn’t it? Pulling out a gun a shooting the GK to score the winning goal obviously shows that winning ugly isn’t necessarily worth it. Yes, I know, that’s the extreme of extremes as an example, but it does make its point. Winning isn’t so great if the ugliness is too ugly.
My desire is for Spurs to play beautifully and win while playing beautifully. Brasil 1970 is remembered differently from the team that wins by parking the bus, which to me is a bit on the ugly side of winning. We remember teams that win beautifully differently from the teams that win ugly. It matters. Winning isn’t everything. Indeed, if it’s done with sufficient ugliness, it’s nothing.
Why do we need to set up the two issues as though they were in conflict? That’s like saying that we can have good sex with an ugly woman, so why look for a beautiful woman? I’d still like good sex and a woman who looks beautifully sexy. It’s not one or the other. But yes, sex with an ugly woman might be better than celibacy in solitary confinement in a penitentiary.
We all want to have our cake and eat it. No good to eat crap.
Perhaps our discussion should focus for a bit on what counts as beauty in football. I agree with HT that “an endless stream of rabonas , nutmegs, scissor-kicks, chips, flicks and tricks” isn’t beauty, it’s a set of magician’s tricks. Beauty is playing well, in the flow–and football was meant to flow–playing with intelligence, playing in coordination with one’s teammates, having a sense for movement, eschewing dumb penalties, having respect for the game and for one’s opponents. Indeed, having respect for one’s self and others on the pitch is the height of beauty–on the pitch just as it is in life.
Niall, what’s missing in the play these days is respect. When a man with Gareth Bale’s talent doesn’t take the game seriously, acts like he isn’t even warming up when he’s in the midst of a North London derby, he’s showing a lack of respected directed inwardly as much as outwardly. He’s not respecting his teammates, his manager, the supporters, and he’s not respecting himself.
Our players don’t respect the manager–it shows on the pitch. JM doesn’t respect the players–it shows in his face and theirs. Play without respect for your team or your self and this is the result. This is what it looks like.
no respect from others,
how can we respect ourselves?
no respect for ourselves,
how can we respect others?
no respect for what we do,
how can we do it?
dignity is the expectation
that we merit respect
shame is the fear
that we merit no respect
our team plays in fear
far to often
so it gets no respect
and feels no dignity
rodney dangerfield said it well,
I don’t get no respect
I think far too many of our players are playing in fear of making a mistake. This means they are playing distracted. Not in the flow. Thinking about what they are doing instead to doing it. looking over their shoulders in the expectation of being scolded. Like a three year old worried about upsetting his dad. The fun gone out of the play. The vibes are all wrong. the focus is al wrong. The fish rots from the head down.
I take the point about mutual respect, I take the point about players playing for a manager or downing the tools, and these are obviously all very relevant points of discussion.
However, something which isn’t discussed very much, yet which I believe is quite relevant as we, as fans, continue to search for answers: how much can we expect from players, both skill-wise and in application?
Take Sanchez’ performance yesterday. Some of the mistakes he made are just shocking. You would expect those mistakes to have been ironed out somewhere along the way in his development, a long time ago. It begs the question: how does a player with obvious technical flaws get fast-tracked to the highest levels of football? Lack of concentration (although a problem in itself) could explain some errors, but not all. Some are just down to ineptitude as a footballer.
And it’s not just Sanchez. I am quite regularly appalled by some of the mistakes I see in PL games. Mistakes which you’d be disappointed to see at a U13 game. In some cases, I just cannot believe how poor some players’ touch is, despite reaching the highest echelons in world football. In other cases, I am left scratching my head a the decision-making.
It seems to me that as the game has gotten faster, there has been a shift in what constitutes a “talented” footballer. It used to be that technical ability and football IQ were paramount. These days, the focus seems to be on promoting great athletes first and foremost, and to a certain degree, turning a blind eye to those players’ technical or decision-making limitations, as long as they’re big, fast and/or strong.
Raheem Sterling is a great example: his pace is so frightening that he’ll always create chances, if only just by running past people. But how poor are his touch and decision-making? as soon as his pace goes as he gets older, what is he going to be left with? We had our own version of that in Aaron Lennon. There are so many players wha are in the PL based on what they can do as athletes, rather than how good they are at football.
At the other end of the spectrum, you’ve got the Luka Modrics of this world. Small, not particularly fast or strong, but highly skilled and intelligent. And coincidentally, a Ballon d’Or winner.
Now, why have we gone from a place where we were buying Luka Modrics under Damien Comolli, to a place where we are now buying the Davinson Sanchezes of this world? The board have a lot to answer for in that respect.
As far as what we can expect from players in application, I may be old school at 36, but I am in the Roy Keane side on that discussion. These players are grown men, getting paid handsomely to do a job they supposedly like. You shouldn’t need the manager to motivate these players for games, it should come from within.
BS, a very good interesting read post there, you are probably right in what you see as promoted as a top player, speed/strength etc, for me the Modrics of this world are the players, but football has changed, for the worst in my opinion.
I remember RK saying what you agreed with, again correct there. COYS
Nothing you say with which I disagree BS. But even a well skilled player can play poorly when he’s lost his ability to play without looking over his shoulder in fear of being punished like a bad little boy. And some of our players look to me like that’s is how they are playing. Sanchez, for example, seems to me to have gone backwards, to be playing worse than he did when he arrived. I believe someone else pointed that out earlier in the thread (apologies for forgetting who said that). even the well trained player is worse if he’s playing not to make mistakes rather than simply playing because he know how to play.
We are recruiting worse than we used to, and we are not getting the best out of what we have. Frigging Bale has as much talent as anyone in the world, but at Emirates he played horribly. It’s not that he cant do it. he just didn’t care to do so, no? his head was in Wales, not in North London.
Even Modric played piss poor at the end for us because he’d decided not to play well with us when he wanted Madrid.
Right now we’re not getting the best out of a bunch looking over their shoulders waiting to be spanked for being naughty boys.
You’re not wrong regarding self-motivation BS but other things can come into play which might affect ones ability to get motivated. Imagine for example going in to work when your boss is a bully, surely you might find it difficult to motivate yourself to go in and give of your best?
FFS….it riles me to see the spammers doing what we can’t and putting in a performance to move into the top four. 2 up at Wolves inside 20 minutes, let’s see if they let it slip like we do.
Never expected to be looking enviously across to the taxpayer stadium. 🙁
I’ll have to go confessional now for even thinking it!
TQ I don’t look enviously at W/Ham, 1 swallow and all that.
BS good post there, it’s, as I said just what are our scouts doing, how did we miss out on the likes of Van Dyk or Mane when we had their previous boss at our club, yet we signed Wanyama who for all his good play was plagued by injury, was this not picked up.
As I said, it looks like we watched Sissoko play 3 good world Cup games, but ignored a very average season at N/Castle but paid top dollar for some one who can’t kick it in a straight line. But we paid top dollar for him.
Similarly how much time was actually spent watching Sanchez.
Let’s look in at some of our signings:
Zeki Freyers,Soldado, Capoue, Froyth, Doh, Aurier, Dave, Jansen, Fazio, Clarke, Sessingnon. Bergwijn, Fernandes, I’m sure the list goes on and on.
When I look at times on who we missed, Willian, Hazzard, it’s like an episode of Bullseye, this is, what you could’ve got.
BS great post there as usual. There just doesn’t seem to be much common sense to our scouting or our needs. Take Bale for example, as I think TK stated, at the Arsenal game he had half his mind on not getting injured for the internationals, I see it now but not then, but did we really, really Need to bring him back to Spurs, has it been a fairy tale.
Re working for managers, I worked for a large firm, regardless of who my manager was, I came in and did my full shift, the work was there to do I did it, do we think nurses don’t do their job as well if they hate the sister.
I’m not a mathematical genius (it’s true!) but I do know that five into one won’t go (whole numbers, of course). So as there are five clubs fighting for one CL place the season is about to get nasty. Let’s hope that our nastiness is nastier than their nastiness!
I don’t think our players have any idea what nastiness is Geof, their idea of getting at the opposition probably goes as far as slapping them with a wet lettuce! :- )
HT …. Good comment at 2:50
OK here’s a question. Why did Vertonghen have to go when he is clearly still good enough to play for the no1 International team? How much could Rodon learn from him? Ledley must be tearing his hair out.
That is an interesting question LT but one that can have a number of valid answers. Verts might have stayed but possibly wanted a longer contract than we were prepared to offer. I think most will agree that he had started to rely on his reading of the game because he was losing pace, he may have felt that moving to another league which is played at a slighty less frantic rate (with a better climate and superb golf courses) would allow him to extend his career at the top level.
There is also the financial impact on the club to consider, if he had stayed another couple of years he would have had very little selling value so the club possibly though it was better to get a worthwhile transfer fee that could be used to fund/part fund a younger replacement. While I think Rodon is a very good youngster I’m thinking we took the decision to buy him only after we failed to get our preferred experienced target.