Tottenham Hotspur fans can be forgiven for moving quickly on from the embarrassment that was the Newcastle United clash last weekend and with a point doing absolutely nothing for our hopes for a strong end to the 2020/21 Premier League campaign, many are again simply looking for a more Spurs like performance when we face Manchester United this coming Sunday.
Welcoming Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s Red Devil’s to White Hart Lane, we all know this isn’t going to be an easy game at all as they will be hoping to chase local neighbours City down at the top of the table and cement their own second place finish this year. We still hanker on hopes of another Champions League adventure ourselves, but whether our ‘pragmatism’ under manager Jose Mourinho will see us get there is an entirely different story.
In terms of team news, Spurs will again be without Ben Davies and Matt Doherty, but the jury remains out on the returns of Toby Alderweireld and Serge Aurier as we see if there’s another chapter to the story of the ‘curious case of the Covid tests’.
Smoke, mirrors, behind the scenes shenanigans – we just have to hope the real Spurs show up, or this could get ugly. Or is that uglier?
TQ thanks again for the kind thoughts, It’s like a lot of the protests all over the world lately, no matter what the reason, people’s feelings are heightend by the continueous “lock down” and this is an undercurrent to all protests. But the trouble is very isolated mostly to the” usual areas”where they just can’t get on. I’ll not go further. My hope is that it doesn’t escalate. But we are an embarrassment and laughing stock. Sorry folks.
Back to football.
A win is a win.
Everybody is special to an extent because everybody is unique. But Jose has certainly not been special during his time at the Lane, which is all I’m concerned about.
JM has done what 99,99% of managers couldn’t, let alone people in general.
We’re all unique and special in our own way – but what do you call the 0.01 percenters who have achieved so much in their field of expertise, then?
I just think your logic of “what have you done for me lately” has flaws too. Should Chelsea fans contend that kevin De Bruyne is a bad footballer just because his time at their club wasn’t a success?
Did you not understand my parameters of ‘special’ in regard to JM. It’s not a universal assessment. Therefore, in view of this, I find your logic to be illogical and we will have to agree to disagree.
Geof – obviously not.
Listen, in the end we’re all entitled to opinions. You dislike JM and that’s fine. But short selling his overall achievements out of personal dislike seems petty to me. Even if he does nothing at Spurs, he’ll still have had a remarkable career (pick your word if you don’t like special or remarkable). That’s not even a question of logic, that is as factual as can be.
Niall,
I don’t think Northern Ireland is an embarrassment, but it is a tragedy. It’s always tragic when ancient animosities continue. Perhaps overlocking economic interests of the insane Brexit-motivated customs arrangements will find some common interests.
Geof,
When Mourinho was gaining international attention at Porto I was just starting to become conversational in Portuguese (in Brazil). I was really happy to see an upstart team Portuguese team knocking off the big European bully teams so I started reading the Portuguese newspapers and found fairly quickly that the values of this Miserable man were miserable. Nothing since then has made me feel I got it wrong then. Silly to care, I suppose, but I had a funny identification with the mundo lusofonico. the portuguese speaking world. His miserable nature since coming to north London has been no surprise to me. Unfortunately. I believe in some way in redemption, but he’s worked hard to cure me of that.
So BS. Once again you are being negative about a good Spurs win and performance. I think you just like to be contrary. you always some how find the negative in what we have done well.
And, one minute you’re sticking up for Jose and the next you are having a dig at the team for winning 6-1 at OT. ???
So basically, are you saying we were pretty crap on that day too, as well as for most of the season. ???
I don’t understand what you are trying to say. Is it that 6-1 at Od Trafford is nothing ‘special’ to speak of?even though it was their joint worst ever PL home defeat… ???
It’s true, we have given away a few bad goals this season. (But most PL teams have done the same, not just Spurs). But I will remind everyone again about this. Our defence has not been as bad this season, as we like to make out. Especially given the sheer amount of minutes the boss makes them have to defend. We have only conceded 32 PL goals this season. Which puts us in 3rd for this. Only conceding 2 more than Chelsea, who are second behind City for goals conceded.
I think the major problem is losing so many points this season from winning positions. And it is mostly down to our poor tactics of sitting back and inviting so much pressure time and again, and often when only having a 1 goal advantage. We did it versus Newcastle. After we had done well to get to 2-1, after conceding first.
Jose seems clueless so often this season. And it is reflected in the team. The players don’t seem to know wether they are coming or going. And we so often just seem to hope that Harry and/or Son will save the day, if the defence can’t. It all looks so desperate and unorganised. And surely its managers and coaches that should take the brunt of the blame for this kind of problem.
Funnily though, with all the negativity, I’m still sticking with my season long prediction of Spurs finishing in the top 4 and winning a cup. Just because we still can. 🙂 But no doubt I’m just fantasising as the deluded fool. Just as as I always do!
Talking of ‘special’. JM called himself “The Special One” when he first came to London, before he had even managed his first match with Chelsea. He was boasting about what he’d done with Porto. Which was impressive. But I’m only concerned with what we see from him at Spurs. And it’s been far from special.
Then again, he does seem to have a special kind of relationship with his players, doesn’t he? And I’m sure they all love him to bits! Just as we all do, secretly! Haha!
Factual correction HT. We didn’t go defensive against Newcastle after going 2-1 up. The team were told to go all out for another goal and the attacking substitutions reflected this.
Maybe if Jose had gone defensive and brought in Sissoko and Dier towards the end we would have got those 3 points and the reaction here might have been very different.
Excuse me Villa fans! You have conceded 1 less goal than Spurs……. 😉
TK – we all understand your visceral dislike for JM, but even by your standards, comparing him to a mass murderer or a political tyrant from the 1940s is a massive stretch.
It’s just football mate, and to somehow say JM is an evil fiugre in history, just because he’s arrogant and he’s hurt a few feelings in the past – well that would make 99% of people evil, by that definition.
I didn’t compare Mourinho to a tyrant. lol just pointed out that one can claim to be special in ways that aren’t necessarily decent. You pointed out that he can claim he’s special because at one time he had a lot of victories. Just pointing out that a lot of people had a lot of victories at one time and that doesn’t make them decent people. A famous bank robber could claim to be special because they succeeded robbing a lot of banks, but that doesn’t add up to anything I’d endorse. Same for successful tyrants. Same for successful managers of football teams. Winning lots of things doesn’t necessarily add up to anything admirable. I could accuse you of taking a pot shot at me, but why bother?
Well TK, I don’t think any manager in pro sports doesn’t have “winning a lot of things” right at the top of his personal wish list.
If you don’t like the word “special”, pick another word. JM has gone right at the top of his profession through the successes he’s had, in a line of work which rewards trophies.
Nobody ever said anyone had to be a decent person to reach the top of their profession. Where I struggle to follow your logic though, is that football in general is not an illegal activity, and JM hasn’t broken any laws to get to where he is today. I think you are vastly over stating how bad JM is as a person, but I won’t convince you otherwise so why bother?
Just to add… Hugo and our defence are also in (joint) 4th place for the most PL clean sheets this season…. 10.
I’m quite surprised at these stats, given the amount of joy we give to almost all teams to full-on attack us this season. Even the ones at the bottom…
I mean, bloody hell! We gave the Magpies a total of 22 shots against us. 22! It’s a good thing they are shit, isn’t it?!
Haha!
Like I said the other day. Jose is not the Devil incarnate. He’s just a very poor coach!
If he’s a poor coach, I wonder what you call the countless others who will fail to win in a lifetime what JM has won in the span of 4 or 5 years…
That was a joke! hahaha!
He once was good and now he is not so good…….. And I’m not the only one saying this am I!
See, you’re getting there! Finally a statement I can get on board with.
Although, even the “not so good” version of JM is still probably better than most in the PL. Would you really rather have Steve Bruce, or Sam Allardyce, in charge?
BS. We don’t have to be so literal every time we speak or write…… This is a forum for open debate. Not an examination paper.
Fact is, I’ve said pretty much the same, many times this season.
Jose and the players have frustrated the life out of me this season. And typically, as football can do. It’s full of ups and downs. Which is why I have at times defended our manager whilst never being totally convinced.
For example, if we beat United 6-1 again on Sunday, I will not be having a go at Jose. Obviously! But if we lose or draw having played like crap. Then I will probably slag him off again. Why not?
Whatever happens this season though. I will be ultimately consistent with my overall view of Jose. Whereby I have always been dubious about his own dubious qualities both as a coach and a man-manager., and regardless of his past successes. And even if we do win the cup and finish in the top 4. I will still want him gone. As I have said from the off. It will (hopefully) be, thank you and goodbye, Jose. Or, no thanks and good riddance, if we don’t achieve this…
To answer your message below HT, how dare we, as fans, actually want a manager who wins things for the club?
I personally think slagging off a manager, or prasing him, on a weekly basis is the very definition of the word fickle. Just give someone a bit of time to prove their worth. If the can’t after said amount of time, thenfine, goodby. In the meantime, can we just stop over reacting with every up and down along the way?
HT – I find it hugely ironic that you would be the one calling me inconsistent in my appraisal of that OT result. You might want to sweep in front of your front door.
You’re the one who has called for the club to sack JM, despite talking up a result which he architected. Do you not see the irony in that?
From the moment JM was appointed, I have tried to call it like I see it, giving JM the benefit of the doubt – which is a lot more than most fans on VS can say. That hasn’t stopped me from criticising JM or the tactics when I have felt criticism was warranted. But I have also tried to given credit when it was due, and remain as even-keeled as possible. Can everyone here say the same?
Here you are, criticiing JM and everything he stands for, for the better part of the season, yet selectively cherry-picking one good result – all the while doing your utmost best to discredit JM for any role he may have played in getting that result.
In other words, he’s guilty when thing go wrong, but uninvolved when things go right.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong in admitting that we were a bit fortunate on the day – I’m not making apologies for it, but I’m not disregarding it entirely either, as several posters have done.
Sometimes we play well and the result doesn’t go our way, and other times we play poorly, and fortune swings the result our way. I don’t think the OT performance was particularly impressive, despite the impressive scoreline. In fact I remember the team being quite wasteful on the day. We scored 6, but should have had 10. Just because we in convincingly doesn’t mean we were efficient on the day.
For example, we played far better when we battered Newcastle, and ended up drawing because we gave away a silly penalty (funnily, just like at OT, as I was alluding to), which Callum Wilson scored late in the game.
Yes, I do see the irony in all that, BS. I’ve been highlighting this irony all season. As I have done so at least twice on this thread already. (I just didn’t use the word irony).
I even defended Jose myself a few times, earlier in the season. I did give him his chance to prove my pre-conceived ideas of him, wrong. But he hasn’t now managed to do this. It’s been even worse than I imagined it would be.
But, one result that impressed me, doesn’t change the many results and games and behaviour of our manager, that has far from impressed me…
(I don’t get you. Was it a good result or a bad result v United. You seem to be saying both). 😉 …………..
Here’s some more irony. When Jose first arrived in London, calling himself the “Special One”, his arrogance with this amused me. He reminded me of the great Brian Clough. Who was Mr. Arrogant personified. And I liked Clough. I also said to Chelsea supporter friends and family, how I thought they had got themselves a good man for the job. They needed convincing. And I (ironically) was a man, a Spurs fan, trying to convince them.
But, he soon became most tedious to me… And the major difference between him and Clough, was that Clough believed in the art and joy of the beautiful game. He hated negativity and encouraged flair. But he also recognised the importance of a good strong defender and defence as well………. He knew all about the balance of the beautiful game.
Jose has lost it! He lives in his own past glories and his ego and ignorance rules his past knowledge of the game. He has been left behind.
And this can often happen with even the very best. Sadly, it also happened to Clough as well….
As for “cherry picking” one good result? This is a thread for our next match which happens to be versus Man U. This is why I mentioned it……. Did you read the rest of that post. Because I did express the obvious irony in that one. Asking Jose what has since gone wrong……..
I wish everyone would stop winding BS up! : – )
Geof – it’s the only reason I come here. It gets Spurs fans twice my age get excited about stuff. What’s not to like?
Just a couple of weeks ago I invited yourself (not personally) and others that have been defending Jose, to speak up on his behalf. As I was myself pretty bored with all the Jose slagging off. I wanted someone to convince me to not slag him off anymore, myself.
But not you, jod or anyone BS, piped up. Not a word…
I then presumed that there wasn’t anyone left on here to defend him…………
HT – The OT game was a good result but an average performance, for me. As I said earlier, the two are distinct concepts.
We’ll all see it differently, but or all of the negativity posted on VS, we’re still in the mix for top 4 and in a cup final – which would have been seen as a great place to be, for most fans, before the season started.
But because fans are fickle (and Spurs fans, we seem to take the definition of fickle to a never before seen dimension), JM regularly goes from hero to villain in the space of 2 or 3 results.
I’m not JM’s lawyer and it isn”t my job, nor jod’s, to defend him. Because of all of the negativity I just alluded to, I don’t come on VS nearly as often as I did, and I didn’t even see your question. Even if I had, I’m not some sort of spoksperson for JM, and I can’t be “summoned” to defend an opinion.
I just express my opinion as I see it, and that opinion has remained the same. I will wait until the end of the season to judge JM’s performance. If we win a trophy and qualiy for CL football next year, JM will have done more in 18 months than how many predecessors before him?
That won’t take away the “ugly” means to get there, but sometimes, the end justifies the means.
When MP went, I was sad to see him go, but for all of his qualities, he was never able to turn this club into winners. JM has pushed us at the other end of the spectrum, but we may yet learn a valuable lesson or two along the way.
In the end, my personal opinion is that JM’s time will eventually come to an end, and hopefully, whoever is next manages to strike a balance between MP’s approach of “all style, no substance” and JM’s approach of “results above all else”.
But unlike you and many others, instead of wanting this learning period to end as soon as possible, I choose to see this time as an opportunity for the club to learn something different, hopefully turn a page, and get back to a point where we’re in the conversation for titles. I still fail to see how that is wrong, but I’m sure you, TK or Geof will point it out.
BS …. It’s ‘the means’ that matter to many supporters. It’s ‘the means’ that provides the entertainment of watching footballing excellence.
Haha!
Geof, TK and myself?!
How about 99% of all VS posters saying pretty much the same as myself, Geof and TK! I include those that post on the forum too.
But, after our EL exit BS. You were pretty much in agreement with us……..
If we are not to ignore Jose’s successes. Then surely we must also acknowledge what happens with his teams so soon after the winning of trophies. He ruins them! He also tries his best to ruin and destroy the confidence of several of his star players too. He has done it with several Spurs players already…… Do you want me to name them?!
Then he gets fired!
His biggest fault, it seems to me, is that he feels he is above criticism. He can do no wrong, therefore someone else must be to blame for his own failings. Sad, really. I’m talking about JM, not BS.
Ah yes, reverting to the lowest form of wit when you disagree, or are incapable of formulating an eloquent response.
Must be the age catching up. Thankfully, a few of your peers are still here to cackle at this sort of snide remark.
BS. I said quite clearly that I didn’t ask you personally to defend Jose. Nor jod nor anyone. It was an open question.
Just like this one I will ask for the 100th time on here. That no one has ever answered to the best of my knowledge. Even though the answer is plain to see, imo.
Why, straight after winning trophies at every club he has managed, bar Porto.., does Jose then get fired!
What’s the difference between a bus and a coach? Maybe Jose is not sure and that would explain everything. Just wondering.
Well, earlier in the season I referred to Jose as the (lily) white van man! Just to confuse matters.
It was one of those odd moments when I was defending him. Silly me!