Well, it’s been a strange old summer for supporters of all clubs, let alone Tottenham Hotspur fans but it’s finally time for the first match thread of 2020/21.
I trust this finds the good citizens of Vital Spurs and their wider bubbles, in good health and spirits, as this coming season is bound to be a rollercoaster, both on and off the pitch!
2019/20 was interesting, to say the least, with our problems and the changes we saw (nobody mention poor performances), so this year after a semi-busy transfer window of captures, we also have Europa League qualification to look forward to – which simply only complicates things further given the additional games we face for barely a Plovdiv of financial benefit compared to the Champions League itself.
But it’s Everton up first as we go into a new strange season where fans still won’t be in attendance and nobody knows if we’ll actually perform like the Spurs we expect either, but the likelihood is more of the same pragmatic type of football Jose Mourinho is famed for – we just have to hope the results follow.
Everton...
Win
Draw
Lose
It’s a busy start to the season with five games to pack in ahead of us slipping into October, so can we lay down a marker against the Toffees and show that we’ve learnt from last season’s mishaps?
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PompeyYid, good points but Poch was banging on for some time about the need to upgrade the squad – I believe he was referring largely to the defence which was losing it invincibility and Eriksen who he knew would be leaving sooner or later and could see his performances declining. This was largely ignored as Levy was concentrating on over spending on the stadium (amazing how no expense was spared on the stadium whilst the football signings were done on the cheap). It is a little ironic that having been rewarded with some new signings last summer, Poch was then fired even though injuries stopped him from being able to get the benefit of any of them. More muddled thinking from the owners.
Anyway, we are where we are. It is clear to me that the squad needs a major overhaul (a new striker is the least of our problems). Jose is 100%. not the man to do it, Levy is 100% not the owner to oversee it.
I would still argue that JM inherited a pretty unique set of circumstances less than a year ago.
And I think as PY said he can’t be to blame for it all. I felt yesterday that we lacked something creative in midfield. If any of you were reading over the”closed season “this was alluded to by HT and others. The Erikson player is missing and it was noticeable yesterday.
Don’t get me wrong there are other issues that as DH says 7 or so players would be needed. But we ain’t got the funds, we Havnt got a” sugar daddy”so to speak.
We had personnel missing yesterday.
As some of us have said give it 10 games.
HT – I said earlier I maybe had a short attention span when it came to books in reply to Geof but it was also a bit tongue in cheek and it certainly did not mean with regards to reading other people’s posts on here (as you have put) and in fact I was giving your selection some respect over mine actually (whatever your reasoning for it being given may have been – I did indeed actually note you originally said what you thought JM would pick but still felt I could give you some kudos for having included Aurier – I’m sure you also put a bit of reasoned thought into why you think JM will pick someone after all) – it was in fact as I say in part just a small compliment that’s all (also reading further on and TQ specifically – he seems to compliment or at least give reasoning as to why you might have picked Aurier also)!
If your angry, which we all are, don’t take it out on me specifically lol – not my bloody fault we lost – maybe you need to take a better look at Dier given your always saying how much you like/rate him except everyone on here pretty much, on twitter completely and on top the pundits are all saying the same thing – he doesn’t appear good enough!
A year ago I suggested reluctantly selling him and Winks (to build a kitty to buy better players – this before CV/Covid 19 struck ruining our finances that much further than just based on our massive stadium debt, etc) – you completely lambasted me for it on here and I respectfully based on your reasoning at the time decided to back you and them and now I still feel they have a role at the club especially given they are home-grown and love Spur’s, etc – problem is are either really good enough to be 1st team or are they merely good squad players to have around at least for the moment?! At 26 and 24 I hope they can still improve into their peak year’s of 27-30 but at the moment I’m certainly not sure they are the answer 1st team wise.
Hoj and Lo Celso for me is the CM pairing required ideally. Then come the likes of Winks and N’Dombele and Sissoko and lastly Fernandes and White, etc.
As for at CB – I’d prefer to go with the regular, tried and tested and thus much more experienced Toby (as it appears many others would from my reading) and have Dier as his under-study personally at RCB for the time-being although if Dier can play well and prove himself when given the opportunity over the next year certainly (and there should be plenty of games available to do this) I’d like to think/hope he could eventually be Toby’s long term replacement.
Then as a partner for now it would have to be Davy and Tanganga vying for the LCB spot given that both very importantly have serious pace, something Toby and Dier are pretty much completely lacking in. Of course this is assuming Aurier stays and Tanganga is not regularly needed at RB to compete/cover Doherty, etc.
IDEALLY though for me we sign a left-footed LCB to replace Vert’s end of and integrate him quickly hopefully into the squad – argued enough about this already but will just add many a more fan and pundit seem to be in agreement that another CB is needed and if they really look/delve into it properly then it’s obvious that if that’s the case then indeed Vert’s needs replacing and he was indeed a proper LCB and a quality 1 at that especially in his pomp!
EJ, I’m not and I wasn’t angry. I just wrote a very quick and concise post in which I wanted to make my point in as few words as possible. Which I said I would now try to do….
That’s all, mate…..
TQ – respectfully reading you further and as regards your reasoned arguing on Doherty/Aurier – Doherty is the one we need for sure but given he is going to attack constantly – perhaps it’s better to have the pacy CB (Sanchez/Tanganga) as I just outlined in my last post at RCB then and move Toby/Dier to LCB (not that I find this ideal at all) but still if needs must…………..!
Then again if the 2 selected CB’s and Davies at LB space out properly and keep aware (including no brain fart passes into no man’s land lol) – should be much easier to cover Doherty’s marauding runs not to mention Hoj also being able to help cover there/around there if needed – indeed that’s why he was bought in, in the first place.
HT – no worries and glad we’ve cleared that up then lol!
I’m not happy with yesterday and agree with you that overall we were pretty crap – I don’t think Winks should have started and said it before the match already anyway – Sissoko a much better option given was much fitter and also more physical normally anyway in there to compete with Allan and Doucoure especially.
Taking off Dele our only truly creative player in the side also was not the smartest move by JM and very negative in fact when it was Sissoko who replaced him on top. We were not even bloody losing in the first place. AND it did tend to show in the 2nd half were although we then had more possession we were pretty much clueless as to what to do with it!
As I just read – perhaps something happened again at half-time with Dele being outspoken – perhaps in part as was revealed in this Amazon documentary as regards for example a match last season, etc – how he complained it’s always the bloody same, constantly conceding and losing, etc – although to be fair he blamed everybody at Dier’s prompting and did not target anyone specifically – kind of have to agree with him quite frankly and as JM said – good to see him especially but other’s also upset at losing and not just accepting it as a fact, etc – but then they then need to go out and do something different and start getting the vital wins we all want and need…………………..! Only so much complaining/reflecting – then it’s time for some bloody action to put it right LOL!
I think Dele is a great prospect in the mould of Matin Peters but Jose has no idea how to promote and support young players. What has he done to the outstanding Sessegnon, the lively Jack Clarke and now he is destroying Dele. Ludicrous to take him off for Sissoko. We wanted to win not draw 0-0. Jose is a big head and nothing will change his ways. He will leave with a big pay off leaving us in the lurch. Poch was pushed out for this dinosaur. He is living in the past. Take a look at the modern, creative, attacking, forward thinking coaches. Jose is yesterday’s news. Disastrous appointment Levy. We are stuffed until you get the P45 forms out.
WW…….It was Dele I had in mind when I made my earlier post about Jose not allowing players to express their individual skills, the susbstituting of Dele in favour of Sissoko when we already had little or no creativity demonstrated this.
The one thing that has made me frustrated during games for some time now is the team attitude when we fall behind …. the fact we are losing doesn’t seem to register with the players. Nothing changes. Play usually continue s at the same pace. There is rarely any noticeable uplift in intensity. If we’re a goal down with 20 minutes to go I’d really like to see some desperation (controlled desperation) visible on the pitch …. at least an awareness that we are losing but could still win this. I’d rather lose 3-0 giving it our best shot, than 1-0 and going out with a whimper. And if we end up losing, I don’t want to see anyone walking casually off the park. I want to see them crawling off whilst struggling to breathe.
After all, I get emotionally drained, physically exhausted, and verbally challenged, just watching them. I expect the boys to suffer at least as much as me …. given that it is all their fault.
Geodspurs, a very good post, basically saying exactly what I said in an earlier post, you said no uplift after going a goal down, agreed no bloody umph! or desire not to lose, this is the players fault and not the coach’s, simple really.
Hopefully Sundays game was just the usual slow start and will be lessons learnt with things changing. COYS
Does seem to me on here that when we win its because the players are finally adapting to the new system but when we lose its the players fault….the same players who were adapting to the system. But I guess when we finally get that elusive striker we seem to be crying out for all will come good.
I know Chelski have recently been criticised a lot about how much they’ve spent this summer already £200m+ and counting, but what people are failing to recognise is they’ve already also brought in some £66m in sales not to mention the savings on the wages of Willian and Pedro (and Morata also) who left on freebies, etc – not to mention they didn’t (because they couldn’t) spend anything last summer – so making up for lost time very quickly.
They’ve got plenty of players they don’t need who will also likely be sold further and bring in valuable fees such as:
Rahman, Zappacosta, Emerson, Drinkwater, Van Ginkel, Bakayoko, Moses and even the likes of Batshuayi, Kenedy, Piazon etc eventually.
Watch them re-coup a further tasty sum for all of these un-necessaries and just keep on improving and improving………..!
Looks like they might even be able to challenge for the title with bringing in the obvious attacking triplet of Ziyech, Havertz and Werner but even more important (given how many goals they shipped last season) could be the defensive signings of Silva and Chillwell! This last point could also have something to do with Kante being sorely missed with only 22 appearances in total in the Prem last season when he normally averages 35 for them (in the previous 3 seasons) – if he stays fit and all those top 5 signings settle – they’ll definitely challenge for sure!
All in all I think I/we can now safely say forget about catching Chelski to add to Liverpool and Man City also already. That only leaves Man Utd – but they’ve only so far brought in De Beek (and for a very likely bargain price at that) so fully expect them to splash plenty more in the next 3 weeks again almost certainly.
Almost going to be impossible to break into the top 4 this season if we face the facts realistically (myself included no matter how much hope one might honestly have given only the start of the season at the moment and not even taking into account the dent from Sunday already also) but hopefully we can at the very minimum at least try to mount some kind of challenge with regards to such and still maybe be in with some kind of shot/shout come Xmas and into the New Year!
Realistically though – we’re probably going to fight it out for 5th although this is the minimum I’ll expect and a small mercy based on last season’s 6th – the existing top 4 are just too bloody strong especially with the way they keep improving!
I will say if Lo Celso, Dele and HK10 stay fit all season for a change and if the defence can actually quite frankly surprise and outperform (pretty much all of them though needed to do such) then we could get lucky but will require a hell of a lot of effort for sure and even some bloody decent luck also……….!
As usual let’s wait and see how it pans out – Sunday no good for sure – now hopefully for the turn-around and proper re-start from here naturally – certainly hoping so anyway…………!
I still think overall we have the better players and squad compared to the likes of Arsenal, Leicester, Wolves and Everton (even though they beat us on Sunday) and over the course of the season I think this will be proved and we’ll at least finish 5th – unfortunately though we want and given our massive debt probably could do with the CL in reality – the problem with this though being that in reality (again that word) this is almost impossible given the strength already and continued recruiting pace of the established top 4 from last season!
Hopefully and thankfully according to Levy our prudence (low net transfer fee spend and tightly controlled wages – barring JM of course LOL) means that even with this massive debt around our necks – we can still survive OK even without the CL qualification and the money it brings in although if we’re honest and naturally quite frankly it would make it that much easier and quicker to pay it off if we were indeed regular qualifiers in such and on top could continue in the vein of 2018/19 when we obviously got all the way to the final!
If as claimed the stadium alone can bring in up to £150-200m a season and given the constantly rising broadcast and commercial revenues (respectively £150m and £135m in the last set of full year accounts – with still no Stadium Naming rights deal although expected sometime in the future and also yet no shirt sleeve sponsor also for example) and any bonus from regular European qualification and runs (to be safe stick to Europa League here for now) then we should be able to beat our current record of some £460m total annual revenue starting in the next year or 2 already (once CV/Covid 19 dealt with fully) – which was already a massive improvement year on year in the last decade anyway.
I mean we’re definitely moving in the right direction but unfortunately as stated given the strength of the current established top 4 – it’s probably going to take that bit longer minimum to be able to fight them properly again – also means HK10 will probably be off and we’ll need a decent amount of further re-building but so be it – not like we can change club allegiance or anything like that LOL – lump it and like it most probably the order of the next 1-2 years at least almost certainly!
Is everyone able to watch the match on Thursday?!
Just re-checked again and finally showing that it’s indeed live on my Portuguese Sky (Sport TV) – one reason I love having JM at the club – get to watch every single match live pretty much guaranteed!
Sunday v Southampton definitely on guaranteed also.
Would now be extremely surprised if next Tuesday’s Carabao Cup game ain’t also live as well………!
Lovely to be able to watch every single game live irrespective of competition but would be nice to actually also watch some decent winning footy on top naturally (I guess LOL)!
EJ …. Not sure we are going in the right direction when compared to a couple of seasons ago. We’re certainly NOT in a bad shape, but more in limbo at the moment. You’re right about currently being in a rebuilding stage of our journey – which happens to most teams every four or five years – so that makes this season even more interesting. Those of us who demand instant success will be alarmed and very negative about our situation, whilst the rest of us will exercise some patience and hope for the best. Gotta love football!
Hi ND – remember when we wanted Castagne for RB earlier in the summer – look who went and got him finally – only bloody Leicester that’s who LOL! Them that in recent years bought quality bargains (always around the £15-20m mark) such as Maguire, Soyuncu, Pereira, Ndidi, etc! Indeed I see he’s already scored a winner for them on his debut no less!
I’ll concede that on here I said I thought we might be able to snare him for as little as £10m given he was in his last year of contract at Atalanta (based after all on his own words that Celtic were quoted £12m in Jan 2019 but of course when he wasn’t actually playing regularly – then with his rise onto the scene last season especially I guess his stock had to rise or maybe Leicester have been ripped off given indeed that he only had 9 months left on his contract (LOL)?!
To be 100% fair – I’m happy with Doherty at RB – quality player, indeed Prem proven, prime age, home-grown, etc, etc, etc but given Leicester have a top quality Prem proven RB in Pereira – Catastagne is probably going to be regularly deployed as a LB especially with Chillwell having left this summer.
That versatility would have been brilliant for us as it will no doubt be for Leicester as we could then have got rid off Aurier and had Castagne pushing Doherty but also Davies all the way on either side, if not more in fact and establishing himself as a 1st team regular either side as well (most probably LB if we’re honest) – we’ll never know now anyway – but would have been a good calculated risk at around £21m (what Leicester paid) and we could have re-couped a large part of that by selling Aurier on (£15m minimum most probably) but there you go………!
Now hope naturally he turns out be totally CRAP but doubt it………..!
Hi Geof, I think I actually meant there more in terms of money/revenue/profit/getting on top of the debt (and all long term especially) but not necessarily in terms of on the pitch yet – in that regard we have definitely gone backwards and will now require a continued re-build for sure adding to the likes of:
Sessegnon, N’Dombele, Lo Celso, Bergwijn, Doherty, Hojbjerg, (assuming they all come good of course),
not to mention the likes of Gazzaniga, Sanchez, Dier, Davies, Tanganga, Winks, Moura, Lamela and Dele,
and all our rated youngster’s like: Fernandes (maybe), Clarke , Skippy, Parrott, Cirkin, White, Whiteman, Austin, Fagan-Walcott, Bowden, Devine, etc (hoping beyond hope most of these can be successful for us)!
Then we have the “super-stars” like Lloris and Sonny and the much experienced Hart, Toby and Sissoko, etc!
I have of course deliberately left out HK10 because I can’t see him staying beyond this season but luckily in that respect we’ll hopefully get a massive fee for him next summer to help with said continued re-build.
Aurier and Foyth also left out because their career’s are currently up in the air and possibly transferable already this summer depending……..!
Rose and CCV will be sold this summer for sure so in their case it naturally ends there!
Is Lloris a World Cup winning captain, a European cup runner-up captain, a CL and Prem runner-up captain, etc, etc, etc – then not a “super-star” (before someone deliberately questions me on it – a bit ridiculously IMHO given) – arguably within the 4 best GK’s in the Prem currently (only Alisson, Ederson and De Gea can match/top him) and top 11 in the world (with the likes of Ter Stegen, Courtois, Oblak, Neuer, then possibly Navas, Cillesen and Donnaruma vying for contention also, etc)!
GK not very fashionable, etc I know, but if you’re top 11 in the world and top 4 in the best league in the world then surely you have to be a “super-star” already?!
I think so at least LOL!
As for our elusive 2nd STR – the only 2 viables I can see ATM are: King (naturally) and Habib Diallo because both can be got for £15m or less and will command wages of probably £50K or less also I reckon!
The rest are completely unrealistic given that we baulked at Watkins £28m (rising to £33m) and even Wilson at £20m and given their respective transfer fees and even wages : Ings, Belotti, Milik, Vinicius, even Daka and Paulinho, etc = no chance!
Then the likes of Deeney (never had it and now even more past it surely), Sorloth (record at Palace even though short is decent evidence of why not), etc so one just sincerely hopes not end of!
Even though the likes of Telles and Reguilon are top quality LB’s and available cheapily by comparison – maybe in the 20-25-30m Euro range – unfortunately don’t think we’ll be in for them because we don’t have the money, there will almost certainly be top competition like Man U and PSG, etc and also because I think JM actually likes Davies because of his generally solid defending and the fact he tends to stay back and even fall in with the CB’s regularly to make a centrally defensive partnership of 3 (whereas the 2 mentioned bomb forwards constantly)! Then there’s also Sess, Cirkin to properly blood and even Tanganga can cover there in desperation!
I can’t see us getting another ACM although some even many would like one – because we’re yet to see the full deployment and involvement of Lo Celso especially with the likes of Dele ahead of him also (don’t think they’ve yet played together for example) and then there’s also N’Dombele to hopefully come in, etc not to mention Lamela being available centrally if really needed, etc.
So the only other signing I can see apart from the already declared 2nd STR, is maybe a CB if we’re very lucky and probably only if some like Foyth maybe Gazzaniga and even Aurier get sold to build a kitty for such – would love it to be so especially if a good/quality LCB could be snared but not holding my breathe 1 bit that’s for sure!
Forgot Willian Jose – would be interesting but again have to add him to the unrealistic list – Real Sociedad not likely to part with a good indeed their best STR for only £20-25m when they don’t really need to or have anyone better lined up to replace him especially with such a low amount to then go searching, etc.
The only reason I think we can get King for around £15m is that they’ve been relegated, thus probably need money (despite sales already made and to get his wages off the bill also) and he want’s to leave to return to the Prem and is in his last year of contract otherwise would probably stay there by signing a new contract again and it would require at least probably £30-35m absolute minimum to prise him away, etc!
As for Diallo – I’m going on reports, etc but he seems to have done well at Metz, etc and for only £13m and lowish wages of £50K or under almost certainly – may well be worth a shot especially as we’re so low on funds, etc!
Personally King remains my preferred option for 3 main and obvious reasons: proven, home-grown and cheap!