Date: 28th August 2017 at 7:12am
Written by:

(spurboy61 sent Vital Spurs this article prior to yesterday`s game against Burnley.)

I ask this question because, whichever player we are linked with, bid for or even buy, someone jumps on here and instantly says that they’ve never heard of him and if they HAVE heard of him, he’s not good enough/too expensive/past it and we should be buying somebody else at twice or three times the price, e.g. Gareth Bale, ‘we lose every time he plays, sell him to the first idiot who’ll give us £2m’.

Harry Kane, ‘he’ll NEVER make it as a Premier League striker, get rid.’ Danny Rose, ‘he’s a bit of a show pony in midfield, he’ll never be a regular first teamer’. Eric Dier, ‘never heard of him, he can’t be any good’. Dele Alli, ‘why are we wasting money on him. If he was any good a bigger team would have snapped him up’, etc etc.

Why doesn’t anybody seem to think that Poch was installed as manager because a) he can spot a good player in the making, b) he can turn promising youngsters into top class players and c) he isn’t scared to get rid of players if they don’t buy into his work ethic?

If Poch decides that a certain player is the one he wants, that’s good enough for me, after all, HE gets paid to spot and nurture talent, the rest of us just think we could do a better job. Given our financial constraints, can any of you think of a better manager for Spurs?

COYS

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97 Replies to “Are Us Spurs Fans The Most Pessimistic In The League?”

  • Sadly after the last 2 displays maybe we were stupid to cash in on Walker. I admittedly said trippier will be excellent , but he showed yesterday he’s bang on average .. just a back up not a first team regular .. and we need Rose back asap. I’m not to fussed as burnely beat Chelsea at the bridge we just have something a miss so far maybe a sloppy cylinder .. top 4 and I will be happy if we can grind that out this season

  • Spurboy61 – a very biased article for me. It’s easy to point out only the successes, but where are the mentions of Fazio, Chiriches, Stambouli, Soldado, N’Jie, Sissoko, Janssen, and others? The reality is that the club have opted for a recruitment strategy which has delivered more bad than good. On another article recently, I had a look at the 18 players bought under MP, of which only 8 at the most could be considered successes (and this is counting players like Davies, who is a solid PL player, but is he really good enough for a top 6 club ?). Yes, the names you list have been successes, but they are not the norm, sadly. Yes, every club is going to make mistakes, but not more than 50% of the time. 8 out of 18 is not a good record, no matter how you put it. As for academy players, again Kane and Rose are the pick of the litter, but what about the Townsends, Masonson, Carrolls of this world? And that’s not to mention the players who were sold on before reaching the first team (Harrison, Lesniak, Oduwa and many others). The fact that we have produced a couple of good players is promising, but are we really turning out more first team players than Southampton a few years ago (Lallana, Shaw, Ward-Prowse, Chambers,…), or West Ham a decade ago (Defoe, Ferdinand, Lampard, Cole,..)? Is pointing out cold hard facts considered pessimism? Or is it actually the opposite: fans getting carried away about a solid, above average academy but no more, which is being overhyped to excuse a lack of success on the transfer market?

  • Missing Walker already.Where’s the back up for Kane? Going in to the Champions League with an inadequate squad. Nothing changes in the mentality of the boardroom.

  • Not pessimistic, simply realistic and certainly more knowledgable about what needs to done. Would that Levyy. Poch and others would pay more attention to them!

  • We often confuse realism with pessimism. Both Belgianspur and I, amongst others, are often seen as negative, mainly because we don’t buy into often either groundless optimism, or blatant lies and half truths from the powers that be. I remember the justified euphoria surrounding the achievements of the Billy Nick trail blazing team, did we build a dynasty on that team no, although this predated ENIC’s control so they cannot be blamed. Harry Redknapp got Spurs as newcomers in the CL to the QF (at that time no one had achieved this before), did we build on this, no. We have managed to finish 3rd and 2nd in successive seasons under MP, a great achievement with limited support from the owners, have we taken the opportunity afforded in this window to fuel further improvement to at least maintain our challenge, no. We will in all probability with the sales of Walker, Wimmer, N’Jie, Fazio etc. And very limited investment, make our now customary TW profit, to go into the kitty with the Sky millions, and the 2nd place prize money, dedtined not to be invested in player recruitment. Yes we will build a posh new stadium, to go with the training facilities, to enhance the value of the business and improve revenues that may or may not be reinvested in the team/ squad, depending on how much you trust or believe in ENIC’s true intentions, but to do this we are neglecting even reasonable investment on the pitch, contrary to what was promised by our chairman. We can plead poverty all we want, but with a billionaire owner it simply won’t wash. I personally have been a life long Spurs supporter and I will always support the team, but I cannot and never will find myself able to support Lewis/Levy and ENIC.

  • MP says he is confident of getting “at least 3 more players in” with now just 3 days left of the window. I wonder will be working o/t scouring Google to identify them, or might we, just might we get in a game changer, a player to make a difference.

  • Add me to the list Frank. Cannot believe what is happening with the transfer window at Spurs this year, shambles.

  • Realist, why can’t we back up this great football with a trophy it’s about time. Because we lack a leader we have poor concentration and the mentality to go to next level. The players we have how many medal have they won.

  • What a chance to push on, next season new stadium will be played Thurs nit footy, last 2 season were great finishes, now others have improved while we stay static, with all money around with sky, yet we fail to make a statement, janssen may not look great, but what must he be thinking, if he can’t come in at home to Burnley, why is he still with us.

  • BelgianSpur – I think we over rate our academy, are they really doing that well against other academies? Chelseas killed them last season, other teams have beaten them, and personally I think there is too much hype about them. Everyone bangs on about Marcus Edwards, yet when called on for international duty he is a sub a lot of the time, so may be there are just better out there.

    I think the biggest problem wi have at the club is we are the club of ‘inbetween’. We cannot compete finacially with the other top five clubs, for whatever reasons, everyone will argue about them. However, trying to bring our academies in to the first team isn’t easy because we are now looking to sustain a top four status and its hard to give these youngsters playing time when we are imo been slowly improving and over achieving with the first team starters. Players like Onamah, Edwards, are potentially good players but trying to get regular footy is hard for them and I think it takes a special kind of character to break into our team simply becuase we are now a top four team. This is why winks has done well. He has managed to take his opportunites when given, even if they have been a few minutes here and there. Onamah was given a fe minutes here and there and imo didn’t take them, but he is on loan now and doing well. Will he be good enough for a top four team, not sure. It was like Pritchard, heard nothing about him since he left yet everyone raved about him and didn’t want him to be sold.

    I think we did make a mistake to sell Walker and was never convinced Trippier was good enough, and still don’t. He is a decent footballer but the way we play, high line we need pace at the back whether that’s a back four or wing backs, and Trippier and Davies hasn’t got enough, but Davies has done alright, he has been staeady in Roses absence but we lost that threat offensively, but when we had walker we got away with losing Roses speed while he has been out because we still has speed and offensive play on the other side in Walker, I think you can manage with lack of pace one sied but not both, not for long term anyway.

    I think we are pessimistic fans because we are frustrated at the years of nearly making it and all the swapping and changes, and even though we now have stability under Poch there is still that sense of not taking the next step, impatience, disbelief it can be done, because we have always fallen short.

  • Yesterday I was upset and frustrated at imo not ever being ready for the start of a season and obvious things never being sorted, like I said, no striker to help Kane when we know he always starts slow, and not getting players in for pre season etc.

    today I am a bit better, I am trying to have faith that the lads and manager can turn it around, we have done last two seasons after a slow start and I didn’t expect to win the title this season anyway simply because of the wembley factor. The lads and the manager overcome obsticles in the last two seasons so that shows me they can overcome the problems this season.

    Now I am thinking if we had all our players fit and we get three more players in then our bench will probably look better than last season.

    Lets take a look: If say we start with three at the back, Toby, Verts and new boy Sanchez (assuming he fits in) and we get Rose back (he gets over himself) and we get Aurier in at RB (he settles and is as good as Walker1) then we will have two in the midfield, lets say at the moment Dier and Dembele. The we play Dele and Eriksen and kane at top.

    Our bench would consist of Davies and Trippier and may be the young lad Foryth if he comes, so similar to last season in terms of cover. We will have Wanyama and Winks for midfielder cover. Then we will have Lamela, Son, GK and janssen and if we get barkley and sell Sissoko then I think our bench looks better. imagine having Trippier, Davies, lamela, Winks, Son, barkley Janssen on the bench or even GK and just one defender, you get my drift. I think if we can bring in Barkley and Aurier we will look better especilayy if we get Lamela fit and back to his best by christmas. I still think we need a better striker and another creatvie goal scoring midfielder but things will look better I am sure.

  • Regarding the article, I am not sure many on here are questioning the potential quality of the proposed signings but more whether they will improve our play as a team. Sanchez looks a great prospect in his sales video, young, fast aggressive and skillful. If Poch is going to play a back 3 then Toby, Sanchez and Verts looks very good on paper. Aurier, a person of dubious temperament but good defensive and offensive skills as a RB or RWB and Foyth a young Centre Back. Are these the critical positions that need filling in our squad when our attacking players struggle to break down fairly ordinary defenses. We already have two RBs that would be perfectly adequate if played with a back proper back 3 and Rose to come back for the LB position. When Wanyama is fit again our CM is ok but the front 4 just do not deliver consistently at the moment. A striker to play instead of Kane would make him concentrate more, as would someone to play instead of Alli or Eriksen but at the moment those 4 turn out but they don’t turn up.It seems that Poch doesn’t think we can afford improvements in that area and adding more pace and toughness to the RB/RWB and CB in a three position will be enough to bring us back to the right level. Time will tell, but from what I have seen so far this season, unless he upgrades the players attitude from the first whistle it will not matter who is playing., Final thought on Levy and the Annual TW negative spend, he has apparently told Toby and others that he will review contracts when the window is closed, so he may be keeping money back to pay for bigger salaries…….I know and the pigs may be flying as I write, but it’s just a thought.

  • BelgianSpur, the repeated criticism you level at the clubs recruitment success rate can likely be applied even more so, to almost every other club in the league. It could be that a 40% success rate for example, is actually really good, although you’d still have to account for the fact that as a top 6 club, with a relatively small budget, finding/developing a player from the small pool of players who would be a long term success at the club, is more difficult than it would be for a mid-lower table club, with more room for improvement. You can always cherry pick Southamptons golden spell, or West Ham a decade a goal, but ultimately, the proof is in the pudding and pound for pound, based on the value and standard of players currently at the club, we are one of the most efficient spenders in Europe. I actually read a financial times article that placed us 4th in Europe I believe, with only Everton in the EPL more efficient.

  • Guyver – I haven’t done the history of all our rivals’ recruitment but let’s just look at Liverpool’s last 3 seasons of recruitment (I chose Liverpool because out of the 5 clubs richer than us, they are the closest to our budget): Mohamed Salah, Dominic Solanke, Andrew Robertson, ManĂ©, Wijnaldum, Karius, Klavan, Manninger, Matip, Benteke, Firmino, Ings, Grujic, Milner, Gomez, Bogdan. In that lot of 16 players, 6 of them are starters of undoubted quality (Salah ,ManĂ©, Firmino, Wijnaldum, Matip, Milner), 4 more are current squad players (Solanke, Robertson, Klavan, Karius), 2 of them are promising future players (Gomez, Grujic), and the rest (Benteke, Ings, Bogdan, Manninger) are “failures” (and I think there are mitigating factors for Ings and Benteke, the other 2 being reserve goalkeepers). That’s 10 out of 16 having a significant impact on their current first team, and 12 out of 16 who can be considered good transfers so far (in that the players are still at the club and have a future). As you say, the proof is in the pudding. And while some of those have been expensive purchases, Milner and Matip were free agents, and more than half the names on that list were bought for less than 10 million (none of the fees in that list surpassing what we are reportedly paying for Sanchez). I am also just pointing out that our record of producing talent is not unheard of, and there are other similar examples out there (Southampton and Wet Ham just a couple of examples, but I’m sure there are more if we actually look into it).

  • my personal feeling about recruitment is we are poor considering our clout even if we can’t compete with the top five finacially. Under Poch I don’t think it has improved. I think when you consider what we keep paying for the likes of njie, GK, stomboili, fazio and non of them are anywhere near good enough we could have brought better to sit on the bench.

    When you consider Sissoko, 30m that season there were better out there and I am sure we could have gave them a good signing on fee to make up the loss in lower wage structure.

    I do think our scouting and recruitment is still behind and needs improving and I thought Mitchel was brought in for that, but he soon went and so did baldini, so it makes you wonder what does go on behind closed doors? Why are we unable to hold on to a scouting team? and why do we end up buying silly players like Sissoko! is it more to do with getting good payment terms rather than getting what we need. Than again the fee being thrown around for Sanchez is quite high, if true you ask is this another risk? I would prefer to have got one decent player last season instead of two duds, Sissoko and Janssen, and the jury is out on GK so could been three duds. last season we spent about 60m on these three players and non of them made an impact, for me that is not good business and are they likely to make a impact this season, well Gk look okish in pre season, janssen didn’t look any different and Sissoko was and is still not good enough and just doesn’t fit in, so as it stands I am not sure we can rely upon them again this season, I am not being negative, just realsitic at this point which could change of course.

    I don’t see Origi coming to us, why would Liverpool sell to a rival? and is he likely to get any more game time with us than at Liverpool? I thought Burke WBA was a decent youngsters to look at while he was at Forest, be interesting if he improves. Surely there has to be some gems in the lower English divisions like Dele? I think this is where we need to look more, they learn their trade in England, more physical and hopefully better suited to PL! but it seems we are looking abroad again. Take Foryth, is he really going to break into our first 11? I have no problem with him coming but are we going to bring in any players that are going to break into first 11 and push other players because i seriously think Eriksen, dele and kane need competition to keep them on their toes. I am slightly concerned about Dele, he doesn’t seem himself, I wonder if its a personal issue or a footballing/club issue? I think his work rate has dropped and he doesn’t seem to think he has to work hard, sometimes that can happen when you got talent, you think you just have to turn up, is this creeping into his game? has he been listening to all the hype about himself? lets hope things improve after TW shuts and the squad is settled and I wouldn’t mind seeing Dele dropped for England and I am glad Southgate said he hadne’t made it yet, he hasn’t won anything, he needs to keep his feet on the ground

  • Totally agree with Frank who like me has been a supporter since the 50’s. We have had two superb seasons but have failed with the final trophies because of a lack of depth and no investment of a top match winner. Someone would have come this transfer window… Even Burnley got one. So frustrating that Levy and Co wait so long. Poch and our top players will be gone if we struggle to mid table this year. Dele is one who will go with Rose and Toby …. Very sad to start our new ground with a fragmented team. What is happening to Sky money and transfer funds? We do not want another Sissoko on 31/08/17!

  • BelgianSpur, So what conclusion have you reached? Solanke, Robertson, Klavan, Kariu are current squad players for Liverpool, so are Janssen, Sissoko and N’Koudou for us.. we’ve finished above Liverpool for all of those 3 years plus several years prior to that, with multiple managers, despite spending less on transfers and wages. That doesn’t sound like a recruitment success rate to be proud of. Of the players you mentioned, honestly, I think we’d all agree, only Mane is a signing to be envious of and we tried to sign him but Liverpools higher wages likely swayed him. I don’t think you need to do extensive research on our rivals, you just need to compare the standard of players and the wages/transfer fees. We are competing despite a much inferior budget, which we wouldn’t be able to do with bad transfer recruitment’s. It would be the equivalent of West Ham being a regular top 4 club, with a squad of top players, but making the claim that they don’t have good enough recruitment, despite spending significantly less the likes of Arsenal and Liverpool.

  • For the most part, we don’t shop in the same places as wealthier clubs. Which is a good thing, as we will always lose that battle long-term. Instead, we look for players wealthier clubs mostly overlook, which means you will sign a few Holtbys or N’jies which will bring down the transfer success rate, but are not a massive financial risk. On the other hand, we have almost unchallenged access to the likes of Eric Dier and Dele. Its the way we’ve closed the financial gap, without spending. Obviously, if we can spend more, to increase the pool of viable players who can improve us, then we should, but thats a separate issue. We undeniably do well with what we currently do spend.

  • Guyver – the conclusion is that Liverpool have signed 16 players and the large majority of them are still there and have a future at the club, unlike our recent purchases who are already on borrowed time despite only recently joining (with 6 out of 18 already out the door in that same timeframe). You cannot defend that. We buy players and move them on at an alarming rate whereas they took the time to assemble a squad and are reaping the benefits now. Yes Liverpool finished below us but they are in the CL just like we are, and were arguably a better “big game” team than we were last year. They dropped many points to smaller clubs but if they find a bit of consistency, they will be nailed on for top 4, probably ahead of us. And in those 3 years they won the League Cup and went to an EL final. So one could indeed ask who had the better spell. Yes they have more money, but regardless of fees, it seems that they are gambling a lot less on signings. We seem to have a policy of buying and assessing 3 years down the road, hoping for the best. They are buying finished articles who fit their system. You seem to only rate Mane from that list but Firmino and Salah will probably outscore anyone at Spurs not named Alli or Kane this year, and Wijnaldum will probably compare favourably to any of our CM players in that department too. We have done a better job developing players than them, but that is about it.

  • I see reports saying Aurier wants Utd move! Is this why the transfer is taking so long? is he holding out for Utd bid to increase on deadline day? or is it the media making stories up to attract interest to their stories? Well we have three days to grim and bare and then shop shuts for a while, and I really really hope the rules change and shop shuts before the season starts because its stupid being open and players being unsettled.

    Hoping for an announcement tomorrow, one on Wednesday and two on Thursday, a suprise package on deadline day. We will see.

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