Vital Spurs Debate Section

Tottenham: Rules Are Rules …. Or Are They?

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Starting with VAR; it is a system that was established to clarify certain aspects of dispute during a match and reduce the possibility of match officials making errors that can dramatically affect a result. So how’s that going?

The way I understand it is, something happens, match officials see it or don’t see it, VAR can then crash the party and reverse decisions or refer it back to the referee who can then leave the pitch and review his original decision. This process takes time during which nobody in the stadium has a clue about what is happening.

The more open to interpretation a rule is, the more confusing it becomes and the less effective it is. At the moment there appears to be no more clarity with VAR than there was before VAR. Although this system has only been in operation for a fairly short time, many of its faults have been repeated many times with little sign of addressing them. There is obviously much work still to be done and I’m not sure how the powers that be are going to do it.

The offside rule is something that we would expect to be as easily judged as goal-line technology. But that does not seem to be the case. A straight line across the field on the screen should make offside decisions easy. But, in reality, that’s not always the case. Should a finger/toe, nose, etc, make it offside. There have been many on-field debates to determine this during matches. What seems to be obviously clear to the multitude seems to been completely missed by the officials …. and they are the ones that matter.

One offside rule that is always open to interpretation is whether or not a player is interfering with play? If an offside player is anywhere between the goalkeeper and the player with the ball, the goalkeeper must, sometimes, consider him in the equation when he decides what to do about dealing with a shot on goal. That is another contentious situation because officials can read this scenario differently.

Maybe the game would be less complicated and more exciting if the offside rule did not exist. If someone wants to ‘goal-hang’ then it’s up to the defence to deal with it. It’s the same at both ends after all. This could result in more goals and therefore more excitement for the fans. Of course, both teams could park the bus which might end in more 0-0 results. Who knows? But there would be less time-wasting decisions required.

Another rule change that has occurred through the years concerns substitutions. Some will remember the time there were no subs allowed (which adversely affected the 1961 Cup final for Leicester). Subsequently, one, two, and now three became the rule. I recently saw an article saying that PL clubs had voted against a proposed increase to five subs. What would such a rule change mean?

For the top money clubs, who usually have more games because of European commitments, it makes sense. But how would that affect the Premier League. Top clubs could have five game-changers sitting on the bench whilst less financial clubs (which is most of them) could have one or two such players and three or four average players on the bench. Surely that would widen the gap even further between clubs in the PL. It would be interesting to know what each club voted for. Personally I think three subs should be enough, but it’s arguable.

Like I said, the more confusing rules become the less effective they are. At the moment there appears to be quite a lot of confusion …. and there shouldn’t be. I’m not advocating anything, just opening a discussion.

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  • TQ2Spurs says:

    When I was a kid an uncle of mine used to tell a story about a man with a glass eye, he said he took it out one day to clean it an put it in his mouth to wet it and swallowed it by mistake. He had to wait for nature to take it’s course but after a few days there was still no sign of it. The guy said to his wife ” if I bend over can you look and see if there is any sign of it appearing?” So he dropped his trousers and pants and bent over and she took a look. “Can you see anything he asked?” “No she replied” “Well that’s funny” he said “I can see you!” It used to have us kids in stitches. lol

  • Hot Tottingham says:

    Funny story ND…

    The job that your friend applied for? Was it as a PL ref by any chance?

    Hi PY and TQ… Now you have mentioned those players failing medicals; I do now remember some of them. Nistelrooy, Fekir and Arshavin do ring a bell… Or, Arse Shavings as I used to call him!

  • TQ2Spurs says:

    DW….if you are reading, there is still a small issue with posting. When a new page is created it can still disappear after its initial appearance before re-appearing a short while later. I note that HT’s 2 previous posts have appeared the wrong way round time wise with the 3.07 post appearing before his 3.06 post!

  • Hot Tottingham says:

    TQ, the posts did appear correctly. The 3.07 post was posted as a direct reply to you. And, did appear after my response to ND…. If that makes sense?

  • TQ2Spurs says:

    Ah….ok HT, the first part of my post still applies though DW.

  • block 108 spurs says:

    Offside rules to change??

    Spurs have had an expert available…. Jermain Defoe 🙂

    Wish had received £1 for every time he was offside at WHL & away grounds in his 2 spells with us …lol

  • TQ2Spurs says:

    If you did block 108 you would be able to afford a season ticket! lol

  • wentworth says:

    Any signings yet or or we going to end up with the last minute dramas and cheapies a la Saha and Nelson? The early bird catches the worm, Daniel. We are a top club not bargain basement, temporary stop gap. We need full backs, a strong creative, attacking, goalscoring midfielder, and a covering for the knackered Kane. Anything less is not good enough. By the way where are our Fodens and Greenwoods? Why is our wonderful academy facilities only providing the occasional loanee? What has the outstanding Sessegnon done wrong? Where is the trickey Jack Clarke? Where is anyone????

  • TQ2Spurs says:

    Who was it talking about the number of penalties Manu have had this season? Just gifted another one in extra time in the Europa play offs!

  • 123spurs says:

    I have no faith in VAR and also the people making the VAR decisions, united people against villa was a shocker, and not sure if they went to VAR or not

  • 123spurs says:

    manPENchester united

  • 123spurs says:

    to sort out offside rule is if the whole body is beyond the defender even a finger hebis off side,

    But now offside rule if he’s finger is offside, isn’t that the right decision technically

  • Niall D says:

    Man U another Pen. As usual a dive they buy one every game. Or is it as I say Man U PLC is, a world wide company. Does it pay to keep em in Europe a while longer TV rites etc… I dunno.

  • PompeyYid says:

    Morning 123, laughed my head off at MU new name…ManPENchester Utd, love it.

    My problem with the off-side rule is, how can you be off-side with a finger if you cannot score with the said digit.

    Back to MU’s obligatory pens, note this has got worse since OllI became their manager, he was a brill diver in his day, to good teaching by him, it is bloody cheating, simple as that. COYS

  • block 108 spurs says:

    Even the opposition manager to Man Utd said last night….Martial did not try to stay on his feet…. which means diving / cheating. Utd new expert on penalties Fernandes scored (surprise… not)

    We have had this in PL many seasons. As well as fergie time extra mins allowed for utd to save a game…

    When will FA / PL stop all this favouritism ??? As this is a form of cheating other clubs of wining game v Man Utd

  • block 108 spurs says:

    TQ2… yes easy, the number of times I witnessed him offside was hundreds over the years. Now I am designated a senior silver season ticket holder…… maybe I should ask Jermaine if he could help me out. 🙂

  • Niall D says:

    B108
    This is what I’ve been banging on about. With Man U. For years one way or another they have stretched the rules, bullied Refs, been given Fergie time. For 10 years in Fergie reign there wasn’t a premiership pen given to the away team at Old Trafford.
    Now two years running because they can’t score from outfield play they are being given a little “heads up by the Ref by way of a pen. As I said It’s like a religion over here the support for United. There were radio stations here which only broadcast commentary on United matches. If they weren’t playing on a Saturday guess what? No commentary.
    I am beginning to feel that it is more than luck.
    As I said earlier ManU are a world wide commodity. And probably have the largest world wide fan base. How many people in the world would stay watching the Europa league latter stages if ManU were out of it. Big turn off all over the world.
    Only saying.
    Any doubters. Look at last night penalty. A disgrace.

  • block 108 spurs says:

    ND… I agree with you there has to be some fair play and not favouritism to Man Utd. I can remember blatant wrong decisions to stop spurs scoring / wining at old trafford…

    Now this season M Utd have 19 penalties in all competitions to date? this is way over any other teams in recent memory.

  • Loz says:

    VAR talk, hmm, well my gripe is i feel they are making the decisions and not the ref on the pitch. I want to see it where VAR can draw the attention to the ref of errors but the ref makes the decisions by going over to the screen. For me that is fair because then he can be consistent with his decision making during the game if there are decisions that can go either way.

    Has for the rules i can’t comment because they keep changing and i just haven’t been able to remember them. All i do is if i see the ball hit a players arm, hand in the area i assume its likely to be a penalty. If i see a player touch a player with his foot or make him trip its likely to be a penalty. If i see a scuffle between two or more players, or a shove i don’t assume anything other than its likely to be looked at by VAR and the outcome who knows. Those incidents are so inconsistent although so are others. Has for offside well i assume every time a goal is cored VAR will look and i anticipate it might be called offside so i don’t go overboard straight away, passion is killed. On offside rule i do t like VAR nonsense of a toe nail, finger nail and those lines they put on screen. I think offside should only be if the foot is offside, what the hell is a head, a toe nail, arm going to do in a offside position especially when its outside the box. The rules i don’t bother reading now because they are stupid and football is becoming like a robotic game, no humanness in it. The passion of celebrating, the stupid mm offside of a toe, the smallest of touches in the area and its a foul. Madness. I always thought it started going down hill when they started giving yellow cards for taking their shirts off. Why?! I liked seeing that, the passion, the nice looking bodies, the humanness of the adrenalin, and its now got worse. This is not football this is technology and roboticness.

    Utd have had loads of penalties, whether they are warranted i don’t know, i don’t watch them often but i remember seeing Bruno do a bad foul on a player which anyone else it would have been a red and he got nothing. Utd have always had the run of the green, look at Fergies additional time for years. I think refs are influenced by fans and media and their preference to who they like themselves.

    Now us, Spurs. Well the announcement of our new players seems to be dragging on there is no real news about any other players we are trying to get in. Its going to be a long window again. I also don’t think Khans of Fulham words about Sess and our club is warranted or wise, Sess twin plays for them, i wouldn’t be happy with his words about my twin brother. To be honest i dont think many clubs, media, pundits like us because of the dealings they had with Levy.
    Im not saying i am against Levy but we don’t seem to be liked much.

    I want to get a striker and a RB and those along with our DM from Southamptom i think it would be a good window, make the squad better balanced. If we could get a creative player as well a bonus but in all honesty i think we need to see what is happening with Ndombele and see if Jose can get Dele, Ndombele and Celso creating first. So DM, RB and Striker this wkndow needed for sure.

    Has for next season can’t say i excited im no fan of Jose never wanted him and don’t like the football we are playing but i accept he is here and i respect his CV and prepared to give him a season. I sit back and observe and see what happens is the best i can conjure up for next season. Im glad we are in Europa but wanted CL but Europa is better than nothing and a chance to play all the players. I just hope Jose rotates and everyone plays so we don’t flog Kane, Son, Celso etc to be fair i think Jose will, he doesn’t seem as scared to make changes.

    The sub rule i think 3 is fine but i prefer all the squad should be allowed on the bench. Ive never understood why that doesn’t happen. In a WC are the whole squad on the bench! It keeps players happier and it gives more choice, that is what ive wanted for ages. Otherwise its like some players getting paid to have a weekend off, not travel and others having to travel be on bench that is madness. They all get paid so they should all do the same work.

    The club up the road seem to be looking at bringing in experienced players, glad we are not going for Willian, i don’t forget, he did us over, it was humiliating. Besides he isn’t that bothered sho he plays for he just wants a good contract. We want players who want to play for us not good big contracts. Those type of players should go to China, America where the game is developing.

    So sad to see Bale situation, just can’t get my head around what is happening. I loved him but if he is staying for the money then I’m losing respect. I get he might be wanting to get back at RM and feels he has a contract but surely if you love football you want to play, money shouldn’t be a issue. If he was not as good has he is then fair enough but his talent is wasted. Don’t want him at our club though unless we get him for loan with wages in line with others at the club. Too much of a gamble to pay a fee or big wages, but it isn’t happening, his agent support that club up the road. Would like his situation resolved though and see him play again.

    Its been a dreadful year on and off the pitch and its not going to be resolved immediately. Getting fans back i the grounds is going to be hard and getting over this pandemic even harder. I think we all need to brace oneself for the long haul and i hope our players come back covid free and continue to be sensible. Lives are still at risk.

    Time to say, enjoy the transfer window and lets talk when its over.

  • Hot Tottingham says:

    Breaking Bad…… I mean NEWS!

    KW-P is a Saint! Peter-E (Hoj-the-Bodge), is a Spur!

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