Harry is recognised by most supporters as the complete footballer. I don’t think anyone can logically dispute this. He is in the Tottenham Hotspur team to score goals and he has proved capable of scoring with his left foot, right foot, and his head, on a remarkably consistent basis. That is indisputable, too.
But part of being a ‘complete footballer’ means he has many other attributes, too. He can defend, he can spot key passes, he can hold up the ball, he remains cool in possession, rarely panics, and he can read the game extremely well. Like all top players, he has a football brain and his thinking is often ahead of his colleagues. He has the ability to know what is happening around him before he gets the ball, much like Modric had (I’m not comparing them beyond this).
Playing a more defensive style of football, as we currently are, means that Harry is often isolated in a forward position and sometimes far less involved in the match. This often sees him dropping back to find the ball and get more involved. By dropping back he takes up the space that midfielders use and leaves a gap going forward when Spurs make a break. Not always, but it happens.
There is continual discussion among Spurs supporters about the need for a back-up striker, mainly in the event that Harry gets injured. But what would happen if Spurs did not opt for a back-up, bench warming striker, but went for a recognised target striker instead (for a name we would need to refer to Jod).
What would the team look like with a new number nine, and Harry playing as a number ten. In other words (to clarify for older supporters) a new centre forward and Harry in an inside forward position. We already have a nice choice of fast, tricky players, to occupy other attacking positions.
Personally, I doubt that such a shift in position would affect Harry’s goal scoring feats as he would continue to find himself with goals scoring opportunities. And, with more freedom to roam, I would imagine that his reading of the game and passing ability would lead to many more goals from the assists he could make.
Harry is certainly not old, but he is getting older and it could well be that he will need to drop back in two or three years as part of the natural order of things. Maybe it would be beneficial to both the team, and him, if this happens sooner rather than later. And it would allow his all-round attributes to come into play.
Once again, I am not advocating this, just throwing it out for general discussion. Gotta love football!
jod. I am one of those wanting flair and attacking football. (entertainment, rather than boredom.) However, I have also advocated a midfield general and enforcer who can” lead by example” and kick a few a$$es when necessary. Unfortunately, we have had the passive Lloris which is not ideal being the wrong language and only the occasional “merde” when Aurier messes(!) up or Son is busy trying to score sensational goals. There is room for both a Mackay and Blanchflower (oh no, I am looking back again) in our team if we are to reach the heights we all want. Hopefully, Hojbjerg will give us that steel in midfield and then give the ball to an outstanding midfielder who can create goals for Kane, Son so we can do a few “Bayerns” against Liverpool, Man C., Man U. Yep, we all want a winning team with strength and creativity. Great tackles, great passes, great goals.
jod….I think he is going to be a really good signing, every side needs a combination of grafters and flair players to succeed. I’ve always favoured having a leader in the middle of the pitch, I don’t see how a goalie can have any influence on the other 10 players during a game when they spend a fair amount of time at the other end of the pitch. I wouldn’t expect him to be given the captaincy any time soon but I’m sure that won’t stop him acting like one when necessary if he is a natural leader as suggested.
On another note……I believe the gooners have done the game a disservice by offering a 31 year old £220k per week on a 3 year contract, it is bound to lead to further inflated wage demands from agents of any half decent player below 30 years of age.
Jod; I’m not sure that many supporters would necessarily expect a DM’er to have to be a “flair player” as such. But being a leader (if Pierre is to be one), doesn’t mean they can’t also be a skilful footballer as well as a tough defensive leader….
Personally, I don’t get why some people make the separation of a team playing attractive, attacking football versus a team being a tight and pragmatic defensive set up. It is possible to be both. As it is for a player to be both a good progressive footballer with some flair and also be gritty in the tackle etc. But, they don’t have to be overly skilful with the ball at their feet. As long as they can retain the ball or can pass it well.
But the supporters that don’t see what Winks does very well as a DM’er when complaining about him not being progressive enough with his passing. Might see something similar with PEH…. Maybe not?
But if he shouts a lot then he does also need to actually lead by example. It’s no use giving up a lot of possession from his position, only to admonish a team mate for the same… That won’t go down well. Either with his team mates or us supporters. Dier has been slated in the past for this. Dishing out orders etc.. Whilst not delivering well enough himself.
I hope he can bite as good as he barks…
I’ve said this before but I feel the need to repeat myself. (What’s new?).
There must be a good reason (or many reasons) why Hugo is both club captain and the France captain for all of these years. And, under different managers… I’ll say no more… 🙂
It’s ok HT…..we understand why you have Hugo’s back…. 😉
jod …. It’s players like this that allow the ‘flair’ players to do their thing. They are both needed in a team.
Jod, your right there regards Hoj, for a number of years now we have been screaming out from the top of the stadium for an “on field leader” and a DM, “who will beat/kick his granny” to stop ’em attacking, so in my opinion both demands have been met, therefore a very good BOGOF! lol! COYS
TBH, even though I have said that I think Hojbjerg is a good player. I have also said I’m not sure about him being good enough for Spurs.
So, whilst he can obviously talk the talk and has impressed with his words. We’ve yet to see him play for Spurs. His actions on the pitch are what will count…
What I do know is that THFC have been watching him with interest for a while now. And since before Jose arrived. So, I trust that our scouts and our coaches know what they are doing…… Haha!
I just hope that he is there to boost our squad in the DM area and not be replacing anyone there. We need options more than replacements. So, Pep can bugger off if he really does want Winks. We need him more…
Good debate here folks. I feel you can have a team of several leaders without demeaning the captains’role. I would argue for example Kane/Henderson for England both leaders and strong characters. Keane/Schmiceal at Man U again similar strong personalities.
I think to have a leader in each area of the pitch is a good thing.
Personally I’d prefer HK10 as captain. But who am I.
Re Winks for me City can take him at that price.
I think it was WW who said that he is at best a squad player. I read a report which has much the same opinion as me he is a bit too safe a bit too tidy. He mostly plays nothing sideways and backwards 2 /3 metre passes. I have never seen him in a crunching tackle (for a DM?). And rarely seen him with a good through ball, never mind an assist.
He may be OK to come on around 70 mins to close off a game with little nowhere passes.
I would like some of the Winks fans to tell me what he actually brings.
PY glad to see “kick yer Granny” back.
I should maybe say that for me “leading by example” doesn’t work most of the time. In any walk of life the idea that if you do your job really well everyone else will do the same is problematic. People are more likely to let you do their work as well as your own. Its no different on a football field.
I love the irony of some Spurs supporters saying if Pep and City want him, they can have him…
I wonder, is it some of the same supporters that will say a player such as Harry Winks is not good enough for Spurs because he is not good enough for any other top PL clubs, such as City… In other words; “They wouldn’t want him, so why should Tottenham”.
I actually think it’s media bull that’s linking him to City. At least I hope so. But the report I read on it pointed out the praise that Pep has given to Harry in the past as being an indicator that MC may well be interested. That along with Hojbjerg coming to Spurs… I think it’s yet another journalist just adding 2 and 2 together to come with any number of his choice…….
ND, I have mentioned a few times on here why I rate Winks. It’s fair enough that you disagree with me. But maybe it’s his team mates, his managers, (Poch/Jose/Southgate) and many others including Pep G that have also sung his praises that you should take notice of, if not the likes of me… I’m just a mere supporter like yourself… 🙂
HT I disagree. And as a supporter just like you and just like you I’m entitled to my opinion. It doesn’t worry me whether or not pep wants him. Fek me Inter Milan want Aurier.
I have outlined his traits which I have noticed when playing.
HT I know I will not change your mind. But for me with Winks.
Regardless of whether we are 3-0 up 3-0 down or 1-1 looking for a win, he still plays the same “nothing”
Game. For me there is little sense in having a 90% pass rate if all those passes are 2/3 metres sideways and backwards. The same as 70% possession for a team in their own half.
I’m not the only one who has noticed this about Winksy’s play. There are a few articles on this.
He would be good to close off a game we are winning. But for me offers little else.
I’m outlining and to a degree the reasons why I don’t like his style of play and hopefully justifying it.
But again I’m only a supporter just like you.
When considering the merits of Harry Winks I think we should be clear about which Winks is the subject. There was a time under MP when Winks was the only midfielder that always tried to play the ball forward, at speed, and with intent. That, to me, was impressive. Spurs were playing excellent football at the same time. The current criticisms have merit but this relates to the Winks playing under JM in a relatively dysfunctional team. Is JM demanding he plays this way. Nobody knows. Is JM going to continue playing a defensive game which is counter productive to any attack-minded squad players. Nobody knows. Until we do know it is surely too early to call for the heads of anyone …. Winks, Jose, or whoever. Time will tell.
Many clubs want instant success and get out their bank books. Many supporters want instant success and call for heads. In each case I can’t help feeling that football loses out.
ND, I think the key to our difference of opinion about Winks is; The reasons you give for not rating him are some the same reasons that myself and others have, in rating him. So me emphasising as to why I rate him is kind of pointless in the debate. However I think it’s a strange idea that he can be TOO safe and tidy for instance. As if this is to be discouraged. Or that he has a fantastic passing rate percentage. It seems to suggest that him being solid and reliable is a bad thing in his position.
I have no idea how well Hojbjerg will do at Spurs. But of course I would like him to be the best he can be for us. And if that is better than Harry, it’s all good to me. But my point about retaining Harry even with PEH is that it will make for a fine competition for that DM role as well as giving extra options for Jose. Winks could also play alongside Hoj, imo… But maybe Jose won’t see it that way, anyway. I hope he does because I can see Harry playing ahead of PEH at times and especially if Ndombele doesn’t work out or is sold in this TW. As is also being rumoured.
Anyway. this is all just about your opinion and my opinion… And we don’t count… Over to you Jose….
Imagine….. if Hojbjerg’s parents had called him Michel rather than Pierre he would be MEH. lol
Let’s hope he isn’t anyway. 🙂
That’s a very good point you make there Geof. Because it is very likely that Winks is following Jose’s instructions for his position. And it’s why I mentioned that those who are disappointed with Winks may also then feel the same about Hojbjerg. Of course PEH may well do the boring stuff much better than Harry does.
One thing that Pochettino praised Harry for and in a very high way, is that he thought of him as a player that has good attributes in equal measure for both the deeper holding DM role and the more advanced attacking, progressive DM position. Ideal for linking defence to attack in other words… In fact he said that he felt he was quite unique in this.
But Poch is no more his boss… But then again, if Poch is to land the new Barca vacancy, maybe we will see Winks elsewhere… Not at City but with Barca. Feeding Messi and Suarez instead of Harry and Son or Sterling and Aguero… 🙂
Probably more chance of Poch going to PSG after their CL defeat to Leipzig if he sticks to his assertion he could never manage Barca because his Espanyol connection.
Don’t know what I’m talking about there, of course PSG scored two injury time goals. Doh!
And they were playing Atalanta not Leipzig. lol
Regardless of what anyone thinks of Winks he’s going nowhere, why ? the foreign players rule. We have the maximum number of foreigners we can have in a premier or European squad, a problem we’ve had for a while now. So there’s no way we are getting rid of any English qualified players that are good enough to get into our squad.
I’m gonna need a bigger boat. Lol.
Was already in bad form as usual on a Saturday as I was going up to see the outlaws. Lol
I was already speaking like Mutley most of the day b4 I posted.
However none of you have written anything to convince me re-the worth of Winksy as a first team choice.
What can you say about what he has personally done to warrant a first team place.
Just backing up what I said about Winksy.
In almost 150 appearances for Tottenham he has got 2 yes only 2 goals and only 2 assists.
His forward passing percentage is 11%.
I rest my case.
Nothing HT, Goeff or anyone else will convince me to keep and that the supposed 40 mil wouldn’t buy better.
ND …. Stick to your guns, mate. Nobody knows how things will go. It’s just about different opinions …. and all of them are good.