It seems to me that the current way some of the most crucial rules in football are applied is turning the game into a shambles. The way VAR is used, and the way handball in the penalty box is interpreted, is rapidly becoming a farce, and both are major issues for the sport.
Most football supporters consider both issues require a reality check. Supporters are not happy and neither are the players. The detrimental effect on the game has been on view for far too long to continue to ignore it.
If the supporters and players find the rules confusing, then what about the clubs? Surely they must share the same concerns. Managers and Chairmen talk to each other. They attend various meetings to discuss football. Why then do they not make a collective effort to amend the offending rules. If ‘people power’ can be effective, then surely ‘club power’ can be equally so.
If the Premier League and Football League clubs made their concerns known to the powers that be why would they not be seriously heard? All clubs should be well aware of the concerns of their supporters and players. And all clubs would have been adversely affected by the way some rules have been poorly interpreted at some time or other.
There is a clear need for consistent and fair officiating of football matches. That would obviously be the aim of all football associations. Fair and consistent officiating is not currently the case and football clubs need to use their position to ensure action is taken to rectify the problem.
Too many decisions have been glaringly wrong! VAR is not a bad thing in itself, but the way it is often administered certainly is. If it takes a VAR five minutes to make a decision … then it should never have been involved in the first place. How is that a clear and obvious error. The referee’s decision should stand.
A penalty, given for an infringement inside the box, is a reasonable consequence. But the current rules in regard to handball (whatever that means) need to be realistic and clearly defined. My view is that a handball has to be intentional. Of course, this would be up to the referees decision (as it used to be) and there would still be some debate on occasions, but it would eliminate handball situations that are unavoidable. When a player jumps for the ball, his arms go outward to balance him. How can you penalise players for that? If the ball hits the arm of a player who has his back to the play, how can he avoid it?
And further …. how is it that play can go on for one or two minutes before an official can raise a flag for an obvious offside. That is utterly ridiculous! Who the hell came up with that idea?
There will never be a ‘mistake-free’ way of officiating football, or any other sport, due to the element of human error. That’s accepted. It always has been. But there has to be a significant improvement on what is currently on view. And if the rule makers do not act, then the clubs should use their collective clout to make it happen. It’s time to penalise the rules. It’s all for the good of the game after all.
DH …. Every game has something to be critical of. Every game! If you want to focus on that, it’s your call.. We played extremely well for most of the game. The fact that we dropped off a bit in the second half isn’t unusual for any team. It’s a matter of credit where credit is due.
ND – “There’s only 1 Jose Mou-rin-ho, 1 Jose Mou-rin-ho”, ” AND “Jose Mou-rin-ho, Jose Mou-rin-ho” – you get my drift – PORTUGEEZA and absolute LEGEND LOL ……………….!
Long may he live and God Save him as well LOL ……..!
Him and Ronnie Ronaldo (to be fair along with the likes of Eusebio and Figo/Rui Costa) put PORTUGAL on the footballing map and to stay – pair of absolute legend’s end of – pleasure to have him at THS/WHL for me personally – like I said a year ago now – the only man who could truly replace Poch – well played DL, etc in this respect, also well played on the 5 signings so far this summer – but where’s my (L)CB AKA Skriniar and also my 2nd elusive STR/CF AKA – the 1 and only JK LOL ………?!
Feel better now, EJ? : – )
Roy Hodgson explained the problem very succinctly, a deliberate handball should be a penalty, an accidental one shouldn’t. That’s not the rule currently, Dier was penalised for a handball he didn’t even see, others in the same weekend were given for ricochets onto the arm. None of this has anything to do with VAR , its the current rules that are the problem. As things stand if someone clearly and deliberately kicks the ball at someone’s arm and this is obvious to both the referee and VAR it’s still a penalty. So undoubtedly this is what will increasingly happen. Even the Newcastle manager disagreed with the penalty, which pretty much says it all.
Oh and Hot Tottingham the reason you can’t just ignore error is it isn’t necessarily error. It could be incompetence, in which case the officials need replacing. It could be corruption, in which case it needs to be investigated. If you just let it go then the standard inevitably goes down and down.
I agree jod, that (human) error should not be ignored. But it never is and never will be. My question was a basic one. And that was; is human error not inevitable?
And the answer has to be “Yes, human error is inevitable”. And with regard to football, my point was that when the rules were more clear-cut and made much more logical sense in how the game of football is played, that human ( a refs) error was more acceptable than it is now. Because now, every little move and mistake is analysed to the most minute of detail and the rules have no logical leeway. And this kills the game of football, as it was.
Footballers cannot even celebrate a goal now without the doubt that it may be disallowed. And, even when VAR and the ref do eventually decide to give the goal. It kills the impulsive joy of it all. And the fact that a whole passage of play can play out for a couple of minutes or more and yet still be taken back to an incident that is so marginal that it takes a further few minutes to make a decision on it, one way or an other….. It is killing the sport as a spectacle… And this cannot be a good thing…
I acknowledged that the emphasis on yesterday’s controversy is to do with the handball rule and not the use of VAR in itself, for. implementing it….. But my problem is that the new rule (and other new rules) have been altered to make VAR work better… But these new rules most blatantly are not helping at all… In fact, it’s quite clear to me and many others that it has worsened…
Geof thanks for the article, so now back to the subject in hand…
VAR was brought in to alleviate the anguish and moaning n groaning at refs, well in my opinion it has to go, get rid of it because it is even bloody worse, there is more talk about VAR decisions than the game itself, and not forgetting the division between everyone that it is causing.
Handball…in the pen area, if the defending team accidentally handles the ball = penalty, didn’t happen for us yesterday but happened against us, total shite.
Again! in the pen area, if the attacking teams player accidentally handles the ball in the lead up to a goal = no foul/handball/goal given, WBA v Chavs on Saturday, both scenarios are hand ball, whether accidentally or not, so why do both go in favour of the attacking team, not us of course, this whole system is bloody wrong.
Oh! and of course this law/rule/scenario, does not allow the ref to use common sense, total crap again.
The other Bullshit is the linesman/woman, can I say that in this PC world, not signaling offside until the player plays the ball, or even a goal is scored.
For me, an old hand, Technology is here to stay because our masters, who are always right and know better, say it is, no matter the crap it causes, thus……Technology 1 Football 0, the game as we know it is finished.
No matter! the game as I used to know it was better, far superior, exciting when it was left to the refs to run the game including human error and all that Jazz, ok we would gripe about things, but it was never as bad as it is now.
I also believe all the Football team managers need to get together and have a go at the FA, or who ever else, to get changes made, scrap the whole bloody thing that is VAR, I was never in favour of it in the first place. COYS
Let’s face it, there are more controversial decisions now than there ever were when the ref and linesmen were left to make the decisions!
Goal-line technology makes it very easy to arrive at the correct decision. It was long overdue. It’s simple. It’s successful.
Having seen how VAR works (or doesn’t) I would prefer the ref to officiate and, if he or the lines-person, have any doubt about a decision he would have the option of a pitch-side video check himself. Refs seem to do that a lot when it goes back to him from the VAR in any case. So let him get on with it.
Penalties for hand-ball should only be given if deemed deliberate …. and the ref could use the pitch-side video to check that too if in doubt. Why waste time with VAR who are no more expert than the ref.
Flagging for offside has never seemed a problem to me …. unless it was blatantly the wrong call. That can be checked pitch-side now, too.
TQ …. We were writing at the same time. You made my point!
Exactly TQ.. Exactly!
When VAR was being discussed on here just before it was implemented into the PL and other competitions. I argued that this would be the case. I was firmly put to rights by some that were in absolute favour of it. I obviously didn’t know that I was right about this at the time. But it now disappoints me that it was. So, I make no boast abot me insisting that it would probably increase controversy… But to justify VAR as it stands. at this time, now seems wrong…
Hopefully FIFA will see sense and make more clear some of the rulings that make VAR a necessary thing, due to the fact that a big toe can be offside. And, that a possibly deliberate handball can be seen as non punishable in some circumstances and accidental handball can so easily be punished… It’s non-sensical and everyone bar FIFA it would seem, knows it.
This bullshit about arms being in an unnatural position is the most non-sensical thing of all. The only time a human being has his arms (naturally) rested to his or her side, is when they are motionless or deliberately standing to attention, Sir! When in motion and playing football, the most unnatural position for a players arms to be would actually be, by their side… Even just taking a lazy stroll in the park on a Sunday afternoon would look odd if your arms didn’t move away from the body. Let alone when playing football! 🙂
HT….it would be very odd to find me taking a lazy stroll through the park on a Sunday afternoon when there is footie on the box! lol
The fact that we have more controversial decisions since the introduction of VAR, and subsequent changes in rules to accommodate it, just shows how very badly the footballing authorities have got it wrong.
I’m with you 100% PY. Re – the old way.
WhenI was playing on a Saturday I knew I was playing under the same rules, standards, and officials as those playing in superior leagues.
Even now how can VAR apply to certain FA Cup matches because the ground has the facilities and not apply in others as they do not.
Part of the attraction of football to the masses was this “common standard” World wide, open to human interpretation and error. Sometimes we were on the wrong side of a decision we called the Ref a winker and got on with it.
Now as many have said the joy is deminished somewhat, waiting for decisions has let the spontaneity of goal celebration be dulled down.
DH
May be we took our foot off the pedal a bit so to speak as many of the had just done a 4000 mile round
trip to the ars# end of Europe and really only had a days rest in between games.
What I do know is that we had a lot of possession a lot of chances.
Their goalie played out of his skin 2 hit the wood work.
What I’m saying m8 is all the things you said in your last negative complaint that we weren’t doing because of JM.
Well we did what you and others wanted. I know we didn’t get the result but not because we were “Spursy” but because a foolish law beat us.
Maybe we should’ve put em to bed, but don’t put a downer on the effort.
Like it or lump it we played well yesterday under Jose.
Geoff sorry for the delay m8. Thanks for the thresd.
That should say thanks for the thread Geoff.
BTW.
I remember the pundits discussing the upcoming introduction a few years ago of VAR and,
Re-VAR. I think premiership Refs by and large were getting 90-95% of decisions right without VAR.
VAR only brings this up by another couple of percent.
Is it really worth it.
Scrap VAR and the pricks watching it miles away.
As has been said let Ref’s make the decision’s and if he is unsure, take a minute to check on the pitch side monitor. COYS
Is it a sense of desperation that gossip is linking us with a move for Benteke? Would be worse than yesterdays penalty decision for me!
https://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/players/roy-keane-eric-dier-tottenham-19013216
Hi TQ – as regards yesterday when we were discussing the penalty issue and I said I could see why it was unfortunately given, etc – Roy Keane goes 1 step further and blames Dier directly quite frankly and given his reasoning I have to kind of agree with him and also say again fair play that the pen was given – I did already allude to this last might but Keano being a top pro explains it better than I did and also have to agree with his questioning of Dier’s defending which backs Spursfect One and me up on being dubious about Dier as our no.1 CB ATM – I love JM, I really do especially now he’s with us and not the scummy chavs down the road (in my case at least anyway living in Fulham LOL) but I really think he’s got this 1 wrong – but then with Toby being past his very best and Davy not being able to do everything himself even given he is indeed ever improving – I guess he does not have that much choice yet than to back Dier fully. Maybe this might change once we hopefully get Skriniar, etc in this week and Tanganga can start challenging also for a CB role 1 day (given I think he might well be Doherty’s cover at RB for now with Aurier and Foyth likely moving on and KWP having gone already also) – certianly hoping so anyway ………….!
https://thisisfutbol.com/2020/09/blogs/premier-league/tottenham-hotspur-ian-mcgarry-provides-news-that-could-help-club-sign-milan-skriniar/
Off topic but very interesting indeed – hope this is the deal sealer!
EJ …….you’ll be tellng me Darren Bent is the best football pundit on Talksport next! lol
TQ – be fair Keano = world class pro and top pundit – he knows what he’s talking about for sure – not only that but I already discussed it yesterday before even reading what Keano opined, etc and a lot of what I’ve been hearing/reading from the pundits so far has all been pretty negative as regards Dier and just tends to back-up my personal thoughts on him generally – good squad player but not a 1st team type for a sustained period in a top 3/4 side (let alone a PL title chaser) – but just IMHO of course – indeed hope he goes on to prove me wrong eventually and finally – problem is even if you bring in Skriniar – him and Dier should not be played together regularly because neither has genuine pace and given our full-backs in Doh and Reg are going to be bombing forwards most likely regularly – you need at least 1 if not ideally both to be quick on the turn if we get caught out – Sanchez and Tanganga can of course offer that luckily but Tanganga still so young and in-experienced and so much to learn before can be relied upon fully as a 1st team regular – great prospect though for sure …………!
Let’s just hope we get in Skriniar first of all and that Tanganga can progress as we all are hoping for especially long term!
Or, as Jurgen Klopp said yesterday; (No doubt in an effort to back the rest of us up).
“Eric Dier didn’t do anything wrong and in the end it’s a penalty…. The only option is to cut our arms off”