Yesterday’s hard-fought draw at Chelsea brought plenty of talking points that both raised and answered several questions about the team.
Firstly, the matter of result vs performance: we were absolutely nowhere near out best, and for only twenty minutes or so did we look like a competitive side in the second half. However, the fact that we refused to give up until the last kick, despite being outplayed for most of the match, is not only highly admirable, but deeply encouraging – it shows the kind of fighting, winning mentality that Conte is trying to instil into the players. Early days, but four points from two games where we have been in losing positions – one of which at a ground we generally have no joy at – is a sign of improved mental toughness, of which we’ll need plenty to take the next step to success.
Secondly, the various tactical shenanigans from both sides were fascinating. Indeed, Chelsea flummoxed us from the start playing Loftus-Cheek in a hybrid wing-back/midfield position that always seemed to leave us outnumbered in both ends of the pitch, and it wasn’t until Richarlison came on that we started to ask serious questions of Chelsea. We looked good going forward, but the 4-4-2 left us wide open on our left for Chelsea’s second, and the reversion to the back three towards the game’s end swung things back in our favour, but overall Chelsea were just tactically superior all game and executed their press with more efficacy and success; we just couldn’t cope at times.
A great point I have to say, and it’s too early to tell how both sides match up with each other looking forward, but Chelsea just looked a better, more composed side throughout, despite the result. Whether Conte will use Richarlison as a tool to go 4-4-2 in the future, or try a 3-5-2 when things aren’t going to plan, remains to be seen, but it was fascinating seeing his response to going 1-0 then 2-1 down, just as it was really uplifting to see us refuse to lie down.
A lot to talk about, where to start…
First of all this game reminded me of the Brighton game at White Hart Lane last season where Graham Potter, a very tactically astute manager, figured out how to nullify Conte’s formation and walked away with a win. Against Chelsea Tuchel, another tactically astute manager with better players than Potter, did the same thing. The difference this time around was Conte had options on the bench. But even so despite the beating we were taking he didn’t change things for 60 minutes, Mourinho would have changed things at half time. Everyone knows how Conte wants to play, some managers are going to force him to change. That’s something he clearly doesn’t want to do even though he’s now got the players to do it.
Having said all that the fighting spirit we showed was terrific, a lot of Spurs teams of the past would have folded. Even though they were being outhought and outplayed this team didn’t. If you can rescue points from losing positions then it will be reflected in your league position at the end of the season. The game also showed a Chelsea weakness. If you dominate a game and only score the same number as the opposition your strikers aren’t good enough. Given we will probably be battling them for champions league spots all season that could be important.
Finally I wasn’t impressed with the manager’s behaviour, those red cards were totally unnecessary. While Conte has always been a fiery character I was surprised at Tuchel, a sign of the pressure he is under ?
If Conte has weaknesses, they were exposed yesterday. He stuck far too long with a formation (his favorite) that wasn’t working. Perhaps he thought he had to stick to the formation because he’s lacking a creative midfielder, so he want to carry the attack out wide. We need a creative midfielder, if for no other reason than that Chelsea showed how to squeeze us from the wider attack.
For all the new signings, we still have an obvious lack of depth in midfield. God we could use creation there that we don’t have, and we could use a new Mousa Dembele to bring the ball forward reliably.
Richarlison brought a level of involvement no other player in white was showing. How Conte uses Richarlison may be the key quesiton in how far this team carries us this year. Watching him play for Brazil has left me so so pleased we have him at N17. The man can be an inspiration. For all the competition he has in Brasil, he’s almost always selected. There is a reason why. He plays with heart.
Hate his choice of hair style though, but what can we do? He probably would hate my hair, too, especially the hair on my chinny chin chin that if far too long. Imagine how the opposition would yank of a long beard. My thoughts are with Romero here. Too much opportunity to tug. At least the bleach blond locks of Richarlison don’t invite that.
Conte’s willingness to take on Tuchel when the git tried to dominate a handshake? Good one, man. Tuchel is a a-hole. Wholey a-hole.
We got a point that we likely shouldn’t have gained. And we grabbed away two points from a principal adversary for a top four finish. When they were dominating most of thje match. Now there’s something a credit card cannot buy.
jod
Red cards almost always are stupid and do real damage, but this one served a purpose: a message to the players not to back down to gits. Stick up for yourself and your team. I’m okay with it. More than I am with the tugging on another player’s hair. Conte’s red card seems to me to be a conscious act to make a point about standing up (by a short man, at that).
The problem with bringing in a creative midfield player for the rare occasions Conte is forced to change formation is he will spend most of his time on the bench, what player worth having will do that ? What actually happened once Richarlison came on was Kane dropped a bit deeper, more a 10 than 9. That’s maybe a better way to go.
HK could make the world’s best creative midfielder. Who also happens to score bunches of goals.
Takeaways:-
1.Tuchel outmaneuvered Conte.
2.We didn’t crumble, somethings are improving.
The rant:-
1.We never made them work for it. We were the fitter team and we did not exploit this.
Conte needs to rein in Romero’s rashness before it cost us. Against the Saints, he could have been sent off for a lunge and yesterday a free kick could have been awarded against us, taking away the corner that Harry scored from.
Too many threads all at once. I’m with you, jod, on the Conte red card. I made a similar point on one of today’s many threads.
Too many threads spoils the broth. Not knowing where the discussion is will only discourage discussion. this already is a site in danger of dying. The number of participants in a small fraction of what it once was, and now we don’t know what thread to find people?
Save VS. lol.
One thread at a time? we’re fractured enought without being spread about on three or four threads at the same time.
An attack on Salman Rushdie is an attack on all of us. He’s one of us. A true Spurs supporter, and very articulate about why.
You’re in my thoughts, fellow Spurs man.
It’s not necessarily a creative midfielder we need, we just sometimes need an extra man in midfield. Our two were constantly outnumbered by Chelsea which created a lot of our problems. Conte needs to be a little more flexible at times. Did we need three centre halves against a team with no striker?
With Le Celso, N’dombele and Winks going and Sarr possibly going out on loan I think we need one or even two quality midfield players added. Four is simply not enough with the likelihood of injuries, suspensions, loss of form and a World Cup year. If we want to be serious contenders we need some quality incomings in the remaining weeks of the window. COYS
DoncasterHotspur – I don’t disagree about the two man midfield being outnumbered, its always a potential problem. I do think though that the four we have are all very similar (they are there to do a specific job) and maybe three of them in the midfield wouldn’t work that well. If we go down that route then someone who can do the tackling but carry the ball forward a bit quicker and maybe with more of a shot might work. Again though both Kulusevski and Moura might be able to make an impact in that sort of role.
Not sure Kulu or Moura or good enough to be midfielders. Bissouma might be a better bet then we have Pape Sarr who is a good prospect.
However, we have not had a strong creative midfield since the Dembele, Eriksen and Dele era. Many teams have a creative midfielder who can pass and carry the ball.
Currently, we do not and that shows.
TK …. The problem with the threads is that most of them we already know from Newsnow or a multitude of other sources. They are not necessary and, as you say, confusing. Even the matchday tread is minimised and lost between other unneeded threads instead of remaining on the front for any length of time. We have never seen so many pointless articles before.
You know what to do Geof! 😉
The main takeaway from this game, and the only one that really matters is …. a point!
wentworth – The problem is in Conte’s normal formation there is nowhere for this creative midfield player to play. So before you get him you need to change formation, which means you need to change managers.
As fans, I don’t think it’s our job to speculate whether it makes sense to bring in a creative midfielder who is going to sit on the bench most of the time.
If Conte feels it’s necessary, I’m sure there are plenty of players in world football who would be happy to join an ambitious project with a real desire to win something. Maybe a player who is closer to the end of his career, who is content with not starting every game but who can provide a spark when called upon.
Ironically, Eriksen seemed to fit a lot of those boxes but I’m sure there are others like that out there. Plenty of players join big clubs with no guarantee on playing time, yet it doesn’t stop them from joining said big clubs if a) the project and the ambition are right, and b) if the money is right. Look at how many world class players City have managed to stockpile on their bench over the years.
Why should we as fans anticipate a problem which may or may not exist? After all, how many times has it been thrown about that we would never be able to buy a decent striker so long as Kane was at the club, because he’d never play? Well, we’ve just gone out and signed Brazil’s starting number 9. If players are versatile enough, Conte will find ways to play them. And that may be the key for any creative player coming in: versatility. We’re linked to the likes of Zaniolo and it’s easy to see why. He can play as a 10, on the wing in a front 3 and as a false 9. If he joined, there would be penty of minutes available to him in a variety of different roles.
As for the game yesterday, it’s a game we likely would have lost in the past. I think Conte did get it wrong initially, but credit for recognising it and changing things. We can all speculate as to why he didn’t change it sooner but maybe player fitness was a factor, with the new signings not yet 100% match fit. Good teams manage to salvage something when they are not at their best, and that’s what we did Sunday.
Having said that, there is something to be said about finding the right balance between consistency and “having a philosophy” that players can buy into and feel comfortable in, and being tactically flexible art the risk of becoming a “tinker man”. I think Conte manages to find a happy middle ground most of the time.
The fact that we gained a point yesterday despite being out played for most of the match is not the only thing we need to take from Sunday’s match. The other part to the story are the two points we could have gained and did not. We have the players to take the three points, and despite their grit they didn’t, and we lost three points that we’ll never get. They’re gone forever.
Conte’s approach surely stiffened the spine of the team so that we got a point we wouldn’t have gotten in the past, but his tactical rigidity cost us the other two points.
I’m not sure that I’ll hold onto that perspective, but it’s worth a ponder. We need some tactical flexibility. We did play a 442 at the end for a few minutes. The lads should be able to switch formations with a moment’s notice. Yes, okay, that takes some time to institute and the Conte era still remains new.
Come on you Spurs! Grow some flexibility to go with the new pugnaciousness. We’ve got the balls. Now let’s put them into Be like a boxer who can switch to a left-handed stance for the last minute of a crucial round to confound the bloody hell out of the other man in the ring.
Any football game is “winnable” on paper (as plenty of “upsets” happen every year) and hindsight is 20/20.
Given our record at Stamford Bridge and the fact that we were playing a team that finished above us as recently as last season, I don’t think we would have been justified to expect 3 points on Sunday.
Could we have done better? Possibly. But we could have done far worse.
In the grand scheme of things, if a team manges to win at home and draw away, that is the recipe to win a title. We still can do that against Chelsea this year, and getting 4 points from a possible 6 against them would be fantastic. And I’m sure Conte knew that going into this game and had the bigger picture in mind: be difficult to beat away from home, and make your home ground a fortress.
If we can do that often enough, and consistently over the course of a full season, we’ll be there or thereabouts in the latter stages of the season, when teams have all to play for.
All things considered, I think this draw should be viewed as a positive result rather than an opportunity wasted.
Precisely, BS. The maths are pretty simple. I don’t know why some supporters don’t get it. Win at home and draw away against your main rivals is a formula for trophies. Basic, really, mate.
You think a creative midfielder like Modric in his prime wouldn’t have a place to play on this team if Conte were managing it? Bring in the right creative midfielder and he will force his creativity onto Conte.
If there is one thing about Conte of which I am fairly sure is: he ain’t stupid. He expects players to adapt to him, and he will adapt to them if they are good enough to force his hand.
Be Flexible when what your doing ain’t doing it.
And don’t take shift from the opposition manager when he tries to diss you at the handshake. At least he’s got that one down.
If you start from the premise that you should win every game you play regardless of whether you are being outplayed then even if you win the premier and the champions league you are going to be disappointed. Man City won the league last time but we beat them twice. I suppose there a few a few fans out there like that. The reality is its a measure of winning teams that they find a way to get something out of games where they should have got nothing, the Chelsea game was one of those.
jod. I can imagine being disappointed if we won the CL and the PL, if we had to cheat to do it.
but I take your point. Gaining points when the other team outplays you is something a team needs to do if its to win anything in the end. It’s pretty hard to be the better team every time, and it would be boring. we need an opposition to make any match worth watching.
Questions…
What would the reaction be?
What camp would you be in?
To be boring, according to some, but win the League or a Trophy of sorts!
To be truly entertaining and win nout!
Or is it somewhere inbetween? COYS
As we have seen for many years… if good teams can’t win they dont lose, which spurs have stepped up to with conte in charge. So lets give him some time and see what tactical shapes happens in next few games… Credit to conte standing up for himself at the end of the game. COYS
I agree that this site thread format is mixed up.. go back to original setup.
block, a bloody true post there. COYS