Date: 21st November 2018 at 7:30am
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It was a successful November international break in many ways for Tottenham Hotspur, Harry Kane helped England to victory over Croatia and some small measure of revenge whilst Juan Foyth picked up his maiden Argentina cap…this is what many were waiting for though, Saturday evening and Spurs v Chelsea.

We welcome Maurizio Sarri’s third-placed side to Wembley for a 5.30pm kickoff and there is only a point separating both sides with 12 games played in the 2018/19 Premier League campaign, so as ever, it’s all to play for.

Form-wise, they come into the game with three wins and two draws, whilst we boast four wins and one defeat but their injury situation is more positive than our own as we continue to have Kieran Trippier, Davinson Sanchez, Mousa Dembele, Danny Rose, Jan Vertonghen and Vincent Jansson (remember him) listed as being out injured by physioroom.

However, I’m not aware (unless I’ve missed something) of any additional issues from the recent internationals and I believe both facial injuries picked up by Foyth and Erik Lamela recently continue to not keep them out of contention.

So, subject to manager Mauricio Pochettino’s usual tinkering, it’s pretty much as we were before for this one.

 
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114 Replies to “Real Football Returns As We Host The Pensioners This Weekend – Match Thread”

  • Great win!! great performance…..Dier gets alot of stick, but he’s been one of my favourite players, just love his commitment……Son he’s just the man!! And Alli, so glad he’s back and in form, bring on the next games…

  • Geof, you took the words from my mouth. Sorry Belgian, but I don’t get where you’re going with the Kane thing.

    Of course he’s one of the best players in the team in a position where we don’t have an embarrassment of choices, like we do with the fab 5 behind him for example (Dele, Eriksen, Son, Moura, Lamela).

    Does the fact he played and we might not have played as well without him take anything away from the dominating win and strong team performance?

    I would argue we’d have got the same result if Llorente had played up top or Son had been the lone-striker and Moura had come into attacking midfield.

    It’s all ifs, buts and maybes.

    Bottom line, we won and won well! Let’s enjoy it! Hope this is the beginning of a rich vein of form that sees us inialate Inter, the Woolwich and the rest on our way to winning the quadruple! ????

  • Breaking News!

    Hugo Lloris makes more saves between the sticks than all of our entire squad put together. He also takes the vast majority of our goal-kicks! He has the audacity to be our club captain, more often than not… Poch is the only one that wears a suit on the touchline and Levy has never scored a winning goal for Spurs after so many Lilywhite but, oh so dark years!

    Tottenham play in Tottenham!

    And just because we beat Chelsea in a most convincing manner on Saturday it doesn’t mean that we didn’t lose to Barca, City and Inter, etc, or, that we have also yet to beat Arsenal, even though we haven’t played them so far this season! ………

    In my sarcastic and blatant effort to state the bleedin’ obvious, I do however hope that I have in some way been of some help to all of you Spurs fans today. Especially all you young ones out there… And that perhaps my words have inspired you to take your interest and understanding of the sport to a much higher level of understanding… It’s the least I can do… Up the Spurs chaps… and all that Jazz!

  • Is this a gang up on BS week again, I hope BS realises he can post whatever the hell he wants, regardless if it others deem negative after we won a game. Personally the HT/BS debates are alot more interesting than most of the stuff posted on here.

  • BS – You can believe that Dier’s rotation of position has been exaggerated, but you provide no context for your statement, especially when we’re talking about a player who is the 5th youngest of the prominent squad at 24 years old.

    Which other players have played full back, CB and CM for the team over the last 3 seasons?

    Dier didn’t embrace the change as he should have? Not every player is as adaptable as another, especially younger players, yet Dier was adaptable enough to be regarded as a revelation and gained an England call up and subsequent caps as a result, but I suppose we’ll ignore that.

    Regarding Wanyama not being the best defensive midfielder in the squad, would that make Dier the best, seeing as it’s between those 2 players? I’m not sure Dembele or Winks would be defined as that.

    9, 33, 34, 9, 25, 7 – these are the league appearances Lamela has had since he joined Spurs. Obviously he has played more games than that per season if we include CL, League and FA cup. This would indicate that he played 2 full seasons (33 and 34 of 38 games) before his injury at the start of the season he played 9, then went on to make play in 66% of the games last season, and we know Poch can be very patient with allowing a player to return to fitness.
    Of the 13 league games we’ve played he has played 7, so over 50%.

    I’m not sure if you know injuries can also cause other injuries to occur due to the body compensating for adjustments while injured – e.g. a foot injury can lead to hip or back injuries which may seem unrelated.

    There’s a difference between an excuse and a reason. Lamela missed games because of reasons, not my excuses. Whether he played 5 mins or 90+ he would have to be available for Poch to pick him for 2/3rds of the games in a season he returned in November.

    So a rare injury, which kept him out of last season only, makes him injury prone? Not sure about that. His first season, under AVB, he didn’t start in the league until November, so his stats may appear very low. Again, context.

    4 goals in 4 games, then you say he’s missed significant time this season, although he’s played all of our CL games, 2 cup matches out of 2, and not played in 6 of our 13 league matches, although Poch has been forced to rotate heavily, but I guess you’ll ignore that and not see it as context to utilising our injury hit squad.

    You say the club need to look at his place in the squad, but at 26 years old and as someone who played a massive part in our transformation from a Europa team to league challenging CL team, he is clearly an asset who has not reached his peak years, so your suggestion that we should possibly get rid of him makes very little sense, from a business perspective – especially as he was a full international before his injury and now recalled since fit, yet you constantly bemoan our lack of depth of quality and transfers.

    Like HT mentioned, to me you sound like a opposition fan, trying to demean what the squad is doing and then saying you’re over the moon. Sounds highly contradictory, while being hypocritical in your assessment of many of the players.

    I like the Kyle Walker answer to the trophy / CL example – can you give me another example, or is that the exception to the rule, given the squad consists of 25 players? I’ll guess it’s the latter.

    Again, Leicester is an exception to the rule. Have they won any more trophies? Have they qualified for CL since? Have they qualified for Europa? Didn’t they sack their manager because of what happened in the league? Wasn’t that the same for your great hero, Juande Ramos? Van Gaal? Conte? Wenger? All won trophies and lost their job within 12 months due to the league performance.

    I recall someone pointing out that our resident “fraud” of a manager is tipped to go to Madrid or PSG. I wonder why they’d want him when he hasn’t won any trophies. Hmm, I wonder.

    You’re welcome, with the revised statistics.

    It seems quite likely that the bulk of the goals would go to the striker. Kane had 40% last season. Salah had 38% and won the golden boot, beating Kane by 2 goals. Maybe it’s more common than you suggest and not so much a problem.

  • One point that surprised me was the dismissal of setting records under Poch.

    Given the number, and relation of each stat to another statistic – goals/wins/points/position and conceded/losses/points/position – don’t they indicate moving in the right direction, which is evident since Poch has taken over?

    If back to back to back (and looking likely again for next season) CL qualification, something we’ve never done before, doesn’t count then I don’t know what does.

    Long live Juande Ramos, it would seem for some.

  • My my gone 5 mins, and its all hell let loose lol!

    Ossie….you ask if this is gang up on BS week…answer…looks like it! because that’s what he wants, replies to his arguement’s, I think so anyway. lol.

    HT….sarcasm,love it at its best, mind I do have to agree with your points in your last couple of posts.

    Geofspurs….hahaha! COYS

    melloSPUR….mello! don’t think so, maybe angrySPUR haha, only joking, well said. COYS

  • Don’t forget George Graham too, mellowSPUR…

    He also won us a league cup. He somehow managed to bore me to death for an entire season but still a cups a cup and who cares that we were absolute shite in the League… Jesus, even the cup win itself was a boring 1-0 to the Spurs against the unimpressive Foxes, with a 90th minute winner…

    Graham managed more draws than wins in the league that season! W11 D14 L13… Goals For 47, Goals Against 50… WOW!

    But what a season! We won the Worthington Cup!

    And still somehow a season to apparently remember (for a cup) is strangely one season I wish I could forget…

  • What’s up with this complaint about OUR Harry being too good for us to be a good team? We’re too reliant on our best player? What’s to prefer? A best player who’s mediocre? Is Barça no good because it relies so much on Messi? Should we trash Brasil’s old WC teams because they had the best, Pelé, at its heart?

    Do we have a crap universe because it is totally reliant on it’s one God? Is BS crap because he relied on being a one-dad lad, with only one dad providing all the seeds in need? What’s the problem here? Yes, let’s wish OUR Harry to go away because he’s made us to reliant on him. Let’s trash the old Man U teams because they were too reliant on SAF. LOL.

    We’re damned lucky to have a WORLD CLASS attacker. This is not a weakness to be bemoaned, man.

  • Ossie – don’t worry, I can hold my own. Anytime you go up against the “optimist” brigade and suggest a different point of view, they gang up. I knew this was coming, but apparently trying to make VS a lively place for debate is a bad thing. Go figure…

    PY –“ Sat that looked like “go on my Son”, who with just a bit more luck/control would easily have had a hattrick, oh I forgot that was because our “one man” did it all.”

    My point exactly – could of/would of/should of. Yet how many did Son end up scoring. I forgot “chances” count as goals in your book. The day Son is a consistent source of goals across the full season (and not a hugely inconsistent player alternating purple patches and rough goalless spells like he has for most of his Spurs career), I’ll agree that we have alternatives to Kane. That hasn’t happened yet.

    HT/Geof – Yes, the “main striker” is expected to score. Kane is doing that. The main difference with our rivals is that both City and Liverpool have multiple players with 5 PL goals or more so far this season. My point was that they are sharing the goals across the team much more than we are. Those teams seem to have more “reliable goal scorers” across their team than we do.

    Rest assured that Liverpool and City are counting on Salah and Aguero to score goals for them, respectively, just as much as we are counting on Kane. Yet other players are stepping up too. We are not in that situation and I see that as a risk, as most neutral observers would. Yet the two of you are so defensive whenever anyone dares point out a weakness about the club that you are losing any sort of credibility in the matter. All of that sarcasm is missing the point, HT. Kane is doing his job, just like Aguero and Salah are. Who in our team is performing like Mané or Sterling at the moment? That was the point.

    Having multiple sources of goals is always better than just one – that much is fairly obvious to most fans. But not all fans apparently. And that doesn’t take away anything from Kane’s exploits, TK. We’re blessed to have Kane, and one great striker is better than none. But 2 or 3 would be even better.

  • melloSPUR- “Which other players have played full back, CB and CM for the team over the last 3 seasons?”
    This is where you are borderline being intellectually dishonest. Your statement above seems to imply that Dier has played 3 different positions with great regularity over the last 3 seasons. Since joining the club in 2014, Dier has appeared in 145 games. And the number of times he has played full back can probably be counted on 2 hands, if not one.

    Harry Kane once played 20 minutes in goal for us. Should we refer to him as being capable of playing multiple positions because of it?

    Another thing which is interesting is your validation of Eric Dier with his caps for England. I like Eric Dier as much as the next person, and I have been very vocal in my support of him over the years. This being said, his “blossoming” with England also coincides with arguably the biggest shortage of English midfielders in the last 20 years. In the time Dier has been called up, so have Mason Mount, Jonjo Shelvey, Fabian Delph, Jake Livermore, Lewis Cook, and Nathaniel Chalobah to name a few. That hardly means anything. Dier is a good player who stands a good chance to get better, but let’s not overhype where he stands in world football today. Compare him to the outstanding lineage of English holding midfielders in the last 15 years and tell me if you rank him anywhere near them.

    Anyways, we could go on and on and probably never see eye to eye, but what would be the point? We’re unlikely to change one another’s opinions.

    As for the “like the Kyle Walker answer to the trophy / CL example – can you give me another example, or is that the exception to the rule, given the squad consists of 25 players? I’ll guess it’s the latter.”

    I recall a certain Welshman who left for Madrid despite the “project” under MP being under way already. Or a gifted Croatian midfielder before him, who had also experienced CL with Spurs. All I see is that when other top 6 clubs around us miss out on CL football (something which ahas happend to Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea and Liverpool in recent years), that rarely leads to one of their star players leaving. Yet when it happens to us, we have 3 relatively recent examples. I wonder what keeps those players at those clubs… Surely nothing to do with money and trophies.

  • If more than one poster disagrees with you BS and they post their disagreements, that is not ganging up on you… That is simply more than one poster that disagrees with you, disagreeing with you… We are responding to you responding to us. We are not a gang but individuals with our own views and personality. Don’t lump us as one. That is patronising…

    Nobody has mentioned that having multiple goal-scorers is a bad thing. Why even suggest that? As usual you invent an opposing argument to one of your own, that has not actually been expressed by anyone… You are then in effect arguing with yourself…

    Optimist Brigade? What does that even mean? (Patronising, again!)…

    Our results are good in the PL… With and without Harry scoring… This is just a fact… And if the likes of Eriksen, Dele and Son have only started half and less PL matches than Harry has, why do you choose to ignore this fact all together? Son has only just scored his 1st goal of the season. But has only made 4 starts. We can’t alter this fact… Was his goal any more or less important than Harry’s on Saturday? Was Dele’s? If we had truly relied on Harry alone, the scoreline would have been 1-1!

    Why do you ignore another fact that I also put forward about those 3 being regular PL scorers that were up there with others such as Sterling and Mane, in the past 3 seasons? It’s not a lie… And who knows where they will be in the top scorers table come the end of the season?… I don’t.

    Meanwhile it’s quite simple. If we are winning matches does it matter who gets the goals? NO! And do we know how many goals would’ve been scored and by whom, if Harry had not been playing? NO!

    You know Vardy scored just 1 less goal than Aguero last season and 2 more than Sterling. Where did the Foxes finish the season? 9th, having won just 12 matches. (That is what I would call being over reliant on the main striker)… So what? So what exactly are you trying to prove in all this. Like I said, there is no real logical explanation… Especially if one chooses to ignore certain facts.

  • THFC 3-1 CFC. Goal-scorers: Dele, Kane and Son… Hence the No 3 in the scoreline and hence, the 3 points.

    Just as I predicted… Haha!

  • HT – you’ve also predicted that we would win just about every game we’ve played since I have been on VS…

    You accuse me of being patronising, yet you have claimed that I am illogical, make no sense, etc. All of that is just as judgmental. Just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean what I am saying is untrue or doesn’t make sense. You may not understand it, but that doesn’t mean others don’t.

    In any case, you can’t accuse me of doing something you are doing yourself – otherwise that is the definition of hypocrisy.

    Much like you can see things how you want, all I see it that we have scored 23 goals in the league so far, with 7 of those scored by our main striker and no other Spurs player surpassing 4. All the while, teams like City have scored 40, with their main striker scoring 8 and 4 other players surpassing 5.

    You can rejoice all you want based on the achievements of the club this season, and that’s fine. I am just pointing out that however satisfied you may be with how the season is going so far, some teams are bettering even what you consider to be a great start.

    If all stays the same and all teams continue on their current trajectory, we are unlikely to achieve more than a top 4 spot. I’m not saying a top 4 spot is bad, I’m just saying that if the objective was/is to win the league, our current pace, coupled with other teams’ performance, means that we are currently unlikely to win it all. And I identify an over reliance one one source of goals as one of the factors.

    I just choose to see our achievements so far in the context of this PL season. We are not doing badly (I have in fact never argued that we were), but we are still some ways off the top. And one great performance against Chelsea won’t suddenly propel us to the top of the league.

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