Hopefully all Tottenham Hotspur fans had a good New Year’s celebration, but manager Jose Mourinho’s first team squad had the chance to make it a great start to 2021 as we welcome Marcelo Bielsa’s newly promoted Leeds United back to White Hart Lane.
Leeds don’t appear to do draws, they either win comfortably or lose comfortably and as we know, our own form is hardly predictable when it comes to what type of attacking display we might put in.
Whilst we still contend with a few knocks and niggles, having the Fulham clash postponed (at such late notice) has at least given the team a bit of an extra break and that should at least benefit us given the mental fixture list we’ve faced in the opening half of the campaign.
I don’t imagine there will be many surprises with the line up, but if you can call the first half of the season a frustrating success, let’s hope this game is a marker for how we approach the remainder of our league campaign.
This is one of those questions that will always go around in endless circles. “Entertainment” versus the pragmatic art of winning without caring for the actual means of winning.
It is really just a matter of preference at the end of the day.
I remember similar debates on here with past posters that no longer post. One used to say and insist, that quite simply, football is a sport, not an entertainment. And sport is all about being first. Not about how good it looks.
I understand fully the sportsman that will crave medals. It’s what most will have dreamed of doing as a child. Lifting a cup. Scoring the winning goal in a cup final etc…
I will celebrate Spurs winning a cup with Jose. I will enjoy the moment for sure. I just want to enjoy a lot more of the moments in getting there. Because for now as with all of us, I don’t actually know if we will get there…
If Spurs win something I am always still the spectator, not the player or manager. I will not be receiving a medal for my 50 years of support. My complete joy in winning is always about how we won. But this is not right or wrong. It’s just my overwhelming preference.
Hope this works, https://youtu.be/RjIb7gVJpw0
The link worked fine Niall, thanks for sharing. It did make me laugh.
Granted, I don’t think the caller made his point very eloquently, and I also think that fans and players will approach the game very differently.
Fans can be slightly more romantic and focus on the enjoyment they get out of the experience of a football game regardless of the result.
Whereas for footballers, winning is their livelihood and their sole objective, the reason why the have dedicated a lifetime of effort, pain, and sacrifices.
From the get go, there is a vast difference of “skin in the game” involved, and therefore a vast difference in dedication and expectation. The mistake inthat call was comparing a fan’s perspective to a player’s.
This being said, in the end football is indeed a sport where by the very nature of it, there is winning and losing. It’s impossible to separate the two, as they are intrinsically connected.
And I think that sport is sometimes incorrectly labelled as “entertainment” – because unlike other forms of enertainment, it involves a competitive element.
I am yet to see Chris Martin of Coldplay start a concert with “I hope we outplay Lady Gaga this week” or “we’re playing against Arctic Monlkeys next week – let them have it!” – although that would be entertaining!
I think the caller should have said that as a fan, there are other things a fan can enjoy besides the result, and that even a season where your team doesn’t win it all can hold enjoyable moments. I don’t think the caller made any of those points successfully, despite them holding some merit.
But in the end, the very essence of any sport is about winning and losing, and ultimately what teams/manager/players will be judged against.
It’s not simply about being romantic in winning, BS… It is also about being dignified, if not fully satisfied, in defeat.
Being romantic is talking about the past in a way or dreaming about the future in an idealistic way….. I just want Spurs to win whilst enjoying some good football. That’s not about romance or sentimentality. It’s about how I view the game of football as both a sport and entertainment. But mostly because I support a Spurs team that I know can entertain me as well as win. We are not the current Sheffield United or WBA.
If Harry dreamed as a kid (and adult) about scoring the winning goal for Spurs in a cup final, I bet it was with a spectacular volley from outside the box or lobbing the keeper from the half-way line etc… It wouldn’t be from a pin-ball deflection off his bum and with the aid of VAR… Many, many footballers will want to win with a certain style too and a bit o romance thrown in as well, no doubt.
When we play Marine in the FA cup, they will be dreaming of beating us and will surely try to do the very best they can to win. But in reality, they won’t be too downhearted if they lose…
And footballers and managers alike, whether that be at the top of the PL or as part timers, always talk of the ‘romance’ of the FA cup. And that’s before they have won or lost…
But, don’t ever knock romance mate….. It’s why us humans will talk of “making love” and not just to pragmatically procreate just for the sake of it all. 🙂
Even so, most Pro footballers really do also like to win whilst enjoying their football too… Why wouldn’t they? It’s not just us the spectators.
As a musician and when I acted a few years ago., I can assure you BS that many an ‘entertainer’ (singer, drummer, leading man in a play or film) are extemely cpmpetetive.
And in the music and film industries in particular and maybe more so than ever, it is so much about competition. Whether that will be topping the charts or being top of the box office when at the top of the game. Or just who gets lead billing at the local pub gig or play…
And the competition is fierce and cut-throat when it comes to just auditioning to get that gig or part in the first place….. And there is a plethora of writers and composers out there who’s main aim is to sell, sell and sell more. And not just to please the likes of you and me…
And I’ve no doubt whatsoever that Coldplay will be wanting to outplay the Artic Monkey’s or whoever at a shared billing on the same stage… They will want to be the best loved on the day and every other day… If not then they will have to up their game the next time they play, or their audience will soon dwindle…
I see that Man Utd win a game with yet another dubious penalty when Pogba kicked the back of his own leg and tripped. Last season, Man U were awarded the most penalties in Premiership history and this trend is carrying on like Fergie time did. When you are a “glamour” team, the luck and bias goes your way…there is no doubt about that.
After the win against Leeds, will we be able to put out a couple of performances against Brentford and Marine? No excuse for passing backwards and sideways. A poor result against either will have Mourinho moaning at the players instead of saying….”I’m the boss. It’s mostly my fault so blame me” Hmm can’t ever see that happening.
Very quiet on the transfer front. Levy scouring the bottom basements for a bargain. Biggest mistake was missing out on Jack Grealish at 25 million when Levy tried to knock Villa down to 15. He could really set our play alight and drag defenders all over the place committing fouls to stop him. We have lost that really tricky player (N’Dombele excluded..love his tricks and ball retention) either an exciting midfielder or tricky winger.
Sadly, it looks as though we will be losing Dele to PSG now Poch has made overtures. However, it will be good for Dele if he goes there because Poch knows how to handle him anf get the best from him. Maybe, Poch could resurrect Eriksen’s career too.
I’m all for romance in football. It’s the great players and superb goals that I remember most. coysRus.
Why on earth do millions of people the world over watch so much football in the first place? And often it’s watching teams they don’t even support.
If it is solely about the end result being a win if it is your club. Then why even watch when you’re bored by what you see? Why not just wait and see what the result was? meanwhile you cold be spending your precious time with a hobby or watching a great movie……
And then to pay for it?
I know that I won’t be paying 50, 60, seventy quid or more to watch a bore. But I’d be happy to, knowing that I will at least enjoy a thrilling game of football more often than not. And if my favourite artist releases a record that I hate, I won’t force myself to love it. Even if it did sell a million copies.
Just caught up with the Covid 3 nonsense .
These players are role models and ought to set an example but it appears generally in society the rules do not apply to some esp when the 3 in question are from a foreign country . I am not being xenophobic since we also saw a similar situation in the England camp some months back which I also deplored and perhaps being English they ought to have had more consideration and appreciation of the situation people are going through when due to no fault of their own many have been badly affected by the virus .
I am very disappointed with them and they ought to be punished severely .
Allan….simple thumbs up there. COYS
That’s an amazing analogy HT and BS
Re the music, so often it has happened as you say. I used to like old Rod Stewart back in the days of Maggie May, Stay with me, then when he arguably became world famous with Do ya think I’m sexy, I lost interest (thought he’d become crap)
Re the winning football link, I just wasn’t keen on how they gutted the poor guy.
And as you say probably rightly, players do look at it in a different way than us” mere mortals”
Then we’re back to my Wikipedia /History post re looking up Spurs and it states how much they won not how well they played winning it.
Don’t know how to do the confused Emoji.
ND….another simple thumbs up there, esp regards Rod Stewart, those two songs mentioned, two of my most fave’, were with the Faces. COYS
HT – If Harry indeed dreamt of scoring in a final, I’m sure it was a beautiful volley. But that’s not the point.
If you asked Harry if he would rather score a beautiful volley in the final and lose, or score with his hip and win, I’m 100% sure he would choose the latter.
What it comes down to is what has priority over the other. That is really what we have been discussing all along.
In a perfect world, we’d be able to combine style and results. But if one had to choose between the 2, which should be the priority?
As fans, we’ll all have different opinions. But I don’t think any pro player is going to choose style if given that choice.
I won’t go into the competitive nature or actors or musicians, I’m sure some of them are indeed very competitive (any human being can be). But again, that’s besides the point.
There is no world ranking of bands. They don’t compete in competitions while being held to very specific rules influencing their performances. If there is “competition” between bands, it is tacit, unofficial and impossible to referee. At best, we’re talking about bragging rights which would be hugely subjective.
In professional sports, subjectivity has been taken out of the equation as much as possible. Clear rules which are the same for everyone, people to enforce them, clearly defined objectives, and a universal ranking system to remove any discussion.
Trying to compare both is a stretch at best.
Yep HT Got it right there .
Although not in the rock industry I experienced your sentiments in the classical field and found it quite difficult to succeed with competition quite fierce . The management of some orchestral organisations were not only draconian but ruthless .
However once out of it I became happier and had a far more rewarding life ..
Same here Allan…
BS, you said this: “And I think that sport is sometimes incorrectly labelled as “entertainment” – because unlike other forms of enertainment, it involves a competitive element.” … “other forms of entertainment”? That means you agree then? 🙂
That was just my answer to you from spending a lifetime in and out of the entertainment game. That is all… Damn, they even give artists, performers etc., medals and trophies for their achievements.
Football is a spectator sport. It is in essence an entertainment for all who view it. Supporters do not just count the goals. They scream, they shout, laugh, cry, cheer and boo. They sing songs and they fight. They are elated or get depressed…… Entertainment is not even about being good or bad. Exciting or boring. It just is… what it is!
I do know what I’m talking about mate… But Sport is not the same as playing in a band and vice versa… I think I know that too…..
HT – so you’re saying that a kickabout in a park is not football, because it doesn’t have spectators :-)?
That doesn’t make much sense to me…
Football has merits regardless of how many fans, if any, are watching in the stands.