Given the turmoil at Tottenham Hotspur over the summer, few expected us to open up the 2021/22 campaign with such a flourish as we left Pep Guardiola crying into his Grecian 2000 (or is it Grealish £100million?) with a thoroughly well deserved victory on Sunday.
In the absence of Harry ‘will he, won’t he’ Kane, players stepped up and performed admirably against the reigning title holders and the ever reliable Son Hueng-Min secured us the win ten minutes into the second half.
It was a confidence booster and as we go into Thursday’s laughable Europa Conference League clash with Pacos de Ferreira, few will be expecting any difficulties as long as we again perform how we did on Sunday.
We might even have Kane back as he’s been named in the squad by manager Nuno Espirito Santo.
Two wins from two would set us up nicely for Nuno’s first return to Molineux at the weekend and it would certainly raise spirits with ongoing transfer sagas.
Geof – We can all accept a certain amount of risk in recruitment, of course.
Hindsight is 20/20 and all that.
However, it is also the reason why indicators like staff turnover exist. If you come to the conclusion that as an organisation, you are getting it wrong more often than not, or at the very least, more often than the industry average, that has to beg some questions at some point. Usually, a long hard look at the recruitment process and any shortcomings said process might have.
No process is ever going to be perfect, but you can at least try to make it better.
Nothing wrong with winning?
Depends on how you do it. Winning by cheating isn’t worth it. Winning by boring everyone to death as you park the bus isn’t worth it. Winning ugly is losing by winning. Doctor Faustus lost by winning. It’s a classic tale.
Want to see how to win the right way? Watch Heung Min Son play. He’ll show you how.
Winning with beauty and joy–now that’s worth winning.
It isn’t what you win, it’s how you do it. There can be a pile of dignity is a loss. Funny ‘ol world, innit?
Er, yeah, okay…
I presume that was to me TK. But why?
Not to anyone in particular, HT, except that I saw the phrase that nothing is wrong with winning. I forget who wrote the phrase, but it was the phrase not the person that prompted my words.
So I thought I’d point out that winning isn’t always the greatest thing and sometimes there are things wrong with it. It depends on how one wins. Danny Blanchflower said this. I agree with him. It’s what attracted me to Spurs in the first place.
Sometimes it can be better to lose. It can build character, I suppose, but that’s not what I had in mind when I wrote the comment.
But most importantly, some ways of winning just aren’t worth it.
As a society we tend to get too carried away with the importance of winning. But life isn’t a contest, although it contains plenty of them. What stays steady is the question of how we live.
Not aimed at you in particular, HT. If it was aimed at all, it was at all of us.
By the way, the one time I can remember Son Heung Min looking miserable was when he realized he’d flopped on the pitch to try to gain an advantage. He knew that wasn’t the way to play. If you need to cheat to win, then whatever joy there is in winning ought to be quite muted.
By the way, HT, I think the idea that there’s nothing wrong with winning, or that it’s mostly about winning, is the general sentiment of our culture. Winners are lauded and losers are chumps. Even when the reason for being a winner has to do with inheritance, winners are lauded and losers are chumps. That makes most of us chumps most of the time, but so be it.
I’m like everyone else. I like my Spurs to win. Of course that’s what I want. But, it’s good to think about the costs that can be involved. The winners can take care of themselves. The losers usually need our help.
TK …. Do you mean, winners are lauded, and losers are laundered (hung out to dry) ? : – )
excellent, Geoff!
Okay!
If I can add to the winning discussion, to me it is about exceeding expectation. So it is a moving feast. I was more pleased that we took the game to City than the result itself which was a huge bonus.
Spurs won by playing well on Sunday, not by cheating or boring the opposition to death. Winning is wonderful when done right. This was a well earned win.
I’m now having a moral dilemma.
I want Spurs to win on Thursday. I love it when Spurs win. But I also feel enormous guilt and shame in wanting this.
Dear God, what should I do? Pray that we lose? Say that I don’t care?
Please help me! Somebody… Anybody! I need a sign. Talk to me… Please!
Paco Rabanne (Pour Homme) FC 0-5 THFC!
Damn, I can’t help myself!
Oh, never mind… I’ll go to confession and all will be alright with the world…
And, as we all should know… God is a Yi-ddo!
Yid Army!
Isn’t he?
There is absolutely nothing wrong in wanting to win, its not a crime, its life simple as that.
How you win, haha who really cares, a win is a win simple as that, take for example two winning teams….
That Gooner side who wont the league by winning 1nil, basically every game, holding on till death to win.
or the Chavs lot who got battered in the CL final but still won with a massive element of luck.
Are their fans embarrassed, I bloody don’t think so, they were roaring at the top of their voices, so why are we or some, the! I only want to win with style etc, like I said earlier a win is a win and if it adds a number of trophies who gives a fcuk! I most certainly do not. COYS
You express the view of the vast majority, PY. Win at all cost. Losers are losers and deserve to lose. Even Aristotle defended the right to own slaves–they were losers, after all. Winners often are cruel and oppressors of those who have done no ill except to lose. Is this worth it?
Ah, but winning beautifully and justly and mercifully. To be a generous winner. Life can be beautiful. To lift us those who have been conquered. To bring joy to the vanquished. The transcendent magic of beauty in practice. The inner tranquility of self control that leads to performance–this can be savored in a way that mere winning cannot. Winning is losing when accompanied by rape, pillaging, and gloating over the misfortune of the loser. We knew this in childhood and forget in later life, thinking that the good life requires coming out on top. But being on top requires others on which we rest our burdens.
Winning is more complex than we like to think. There are times when winning is only a burden.
The liar and the cheat gain advantages that provide false succor at the expense of one’s own integrity and can spread bitterness in the wake of apparent satisfaction. True winning requires sacrifice in its pursuit. Gloating is a dark and false joy.
Just some grist for consideration. Winning isn’t always what it seems to promise. Winning can leave a man flat and needy. Winning need not be fulfilling.
Dare to do it in the right way. To dare this is to do, even when the world fails to laud the results.
Winners who are roaring at the top of their voices can be the grand losers. The emperor who turns his thumb to order the death of a loser in the competitions is not much of a winner beyond the glitter of the robes and throne. The throngs mere flies circling the corpse. The buzz and hue need not be interpreted as glorious.
Okay, that’s a close to the classical in style as I can come right now. Beware ye who gloat in the appearance of a victory that at times is a sign of weakness and insecurity. LOL.
Oh ye gods who mislead our values in the valley of the shadow of death, who come disguised in the glorious winning of a cup that runneth over. Not all cups are worth the price. Sometimes the wine of victory is the blood of one’s own integrity spilling out. Cheering and whining intermingle in the crowd of those who crow.
That’s all well and good, TK.
But who do think Nuno should play on Thursday? Tactics? Formation? Score prediction? Will Harry play? Should Harry play? Is Bryan the new Messiah? How much is Sissoko worth. Is Ndombele any good? Who will win the PL? Do you rate Grealish? Is the Pope a jew and God a Catholic?
Ok TK I get it you disagree with me, suits me fine, because basically I do not care, your lectures and all, sleep time me thinks.
During my life, I have never laughed at life’s loser’s, and I have seen some around the world, in fact have tried to help where I can, that’s why my missus runs a Serving and Ex-Vets charity, but I do have a smug smirk on my boatrace if my team in any sport I follow WINS! and also have a right old laugh/jolly at the losers, that is sport. COYS
HT 3 “Hail Mary’s” you’ll be OK.
I like you want us to win, I don’t want us to burn out next April over something which has little standing in comparison to the other competitions we would be involved in, given the suggested distances to be travelled, then little rest for a day for Sunday Lunchtime game in the Likes of Newcastle.
So I’m of the opinion that at least in the early stages we could, if only for the away matches, play the younger players and squad players, to give them some game time. I feel that may have led to our down fall last season, we couldn’t get the results that we should’ve in Europe which left us having to play our strongest team at almost all times, and having had arguably the most games of any Premiership team I fear we just about run out of steam at April and it showed in the likes of Hoj. But with that said I still want to win and I think we could do OK with our reserves in this competition.
With that said good to see ya back TK. 😉
Thank you, Niall. It’s good to be back. It’s good to still be here on this mortal coil.
I was very sick and hospitalized with sepsis and my doctors told me that it could have gone badly. No shit, I was sick. I’m still weak, but coming back to life. I’m realizing that I have people who love me and took care of me, and that was the spur to the victory that it is to continue breathing each day. Winning can be something to behold, as they biblical writers of the Elizabethan era would have put it.
I’m overwhelmed these days by the question of how to live and what brings us beyond the trivial. Winning requires more than just coming out ahead of another. It’s how we do it that matters, and why we do it. To what purpose is the pursuit?
Don’t worry, I’ll get it out of my system and return to the trivial soon enough. The joy of seeing a tackle well done, and the pass well placed, and the effort well taken. The camaraderie on the training pitch. The interplay among those who train together and work to fulfill the training. The hand extended.
Winning takes care of itself when we play life right. Dare to transcend the temptation to outdo others at the expense of how we live. Living transcends cheering that we are on top of the world by standing on the stooped shoulders of those below us. Extend a hand to those we knock over on the scramble up the hill. Pride do not goeth before the fall, it is a tumble down the hill all on its own.
What’s wrong with winning? Depends on what price is being paid in the acts that support the winning. Love and respect those against whom we compete on the pitch. Love yourself when you fail as much as you love cheering madly when it seems you’re on top of the world. Soon enough others will climb over you on their way up. Soon enough the dust wins and all that matters is how we did when we could do. The crowing and cackling while on top will fade to eternal silence.
LOL. I’m alive and crowing about it. Forgive me.
Exactly Niall… I don’t want or indeed expect Nuno to play his favoured 11 for every match. But we have a squad of 25 for this tournament.
We have 3 new players in that squad. This match on Thursday could be a good way to introduce them and get them up and running. We have talented up and coming youth in the squad. We have experience in the likes of Davies and others. We have Sessegnon. Etc…
In other words, I think we can play a good starting 11 without using all of the big guns… And whoever plays I would hope that they take the matches seriously in an effort to win them all. Otherwise why bother?
They are pros and should respect the comp and the opposition… Yes the CL would be great. But we were not good enough for it this time around…
They all get paid to do a job. Simple!
And then, when we play Roma in the final. How sweet would it be to put one over on the special one?! And win it of course…
PY, I’m definitely not a man who thinks winning any old way is be all and end all. I do, above all, want to be entertained. I want to enjoy the football. But this is just my preference. I don’t feel (as TK does) that the manager and team have some sort of moral obligation to entertain me. It is after all, a competitive pro level sport. Not a skip about and fairy dance among the daises…
We’re the bleedin’ Yid Army. Not the Salvation Army…
HT, yes, when we play we should play to make the game beautiful and we should extend ourselves to win, but to win by elevating the beauty of the practice in which we are engaged. Otherwise, as you say, why bother? In athletics we seek to get the best from ourselves, not the worst. It matters what we do and how we do it, and when we do it at its best, it provides beauty and releases what is beautiful in ourselves. And we cannot find this beauty without the other team and we should thank them for the opportunity for finding the best in ourselves.
Yeah…. But I just wanna see a cracking game of football. If not, then so be it., It’s not really that important to me. And I’m not one for moralising or imposing my ideals on anyone else… and it’s really not the end of the world if there’s a bit of skullduggery involved in a win… I can handle a win playing poorly or with the odd bit of luck or cheating… Just as I can handle a loss when playing well… And for a day or two after, I’m elevated to a higher plane… Haha!
It’s just football!
Let’s not make it anything more… 11 geezers or birds kicking a ball about and trying to get the ball to hit the back of a net! Oh and getting paid millions to do it… LOL!
Ht…obviously my writing is crap, sorry it came out wrong, I know entertainment is required, but I will say it again a Win is a Win, if it means at all costs then so be it. COYS
Speaking of Sessegnon. I noticed that he played for the U23’s a couple of days ago. At left-back.
(we drew 2-2 with Chelsea).
Belgianspur – I’m pretty sure they do look at recruitment success, however there are a couple of variables. The first one is changes of manager, usually that means players no longer fitting the way a manager wants to play. Chelsea seem to have a way of avoiding this, I’m not sure anyone else does. The second is you may not be able to copy someone else’s success. Liverpool have consistently got more bang per buck than anyone else since Fenway took over, going toe to toe with City on a quarter of the net spend. So logically everyone should copy them. But so far no one has been able to replicate the data analysis driven system they employ, its a big competitive advantage. Of course if you are Man City it doesn’t matter how poor your recruiting is, when you spend a billion on players you are bound to get some right and you can just write off the failures.
jod – The Man Citys of this world aside, you mention Liverpool as being fairly successful in recruitment, I’d like to throw Leicester’s name in the hat as well.
I’m not saying we are the worst of the bunch but there are clubs out there who do a better job, consistently, season after season, sometimes with far less funds.
If we have been looking at recruitment success and still end up spend club record fees on the likes of Tanguy NDombele (a very talented player intrinsically, but clearly there’s something wrong there), I still think we need to take a harder look. We’re not coming to the right conclusions.
According to Transfermarkt, these are our top 10 most expensive transfers ever:
1. NDombele
2. Sanchez
3. Sissoko
4. Lo Celso
5. Bergwijn
6. Soldado
7. Reguilon
8. Lamela
9. Son
10. Moura
How many of those players are undoubted successes and/or have lived up to the fee paid and represent good value for money?
There’s an element of a magpie chasing tinfoil because its shiny with some reactions to this third tier European competition. If we are serious about reclaiming a top four position then we want to start each premier league game with not only a starting eleven at 100% but a full bench as well. You can’t do that if some of the players have been to central Asia and back mid week. If we want a cup as well the FA Cup would be a lot less effort for a greater reward.
But no one is saying that jod…
I won’t give damn if we exit in the 1st round. But, we are in it and the club should respect any competition it finds itself in. And, be professional about it. It’s all I’m saying.
I have no real concern one way or the other. But it’s hardly a revelation that when Spurs play a football match, I would like to see them win it.
Blimey, this site gets stranger by the minute!
jod,
I’m hoping that this quite peculiar European competition will be used to bring our marginalized players forward, for the youth to be vetted and assimilated into the traditional ways of our club. For the cream of the youth to rise to the top of their abilities. I see no reason for our best players to be sacrificed in the pursuit of this peculiar cup. This is a cup for which winning surely can be losing if the energies of our best players are spend in its pursuit. England is more important that Europe when it comes to where we should concentrate on the pitch this season. That said, if some of our youth learn how to play the Spurs way while in some central Asian pitch, then it will shine brightly for their future. This will be a competition to nurture growth and our traditions of beautiful and purposeful play. Children play to learn. Adults should do likewise.
We need to try and win this. Winning breeds winning no matter how big or small. It sets a bad mentailty if we don’t take it seriously. Subs and some youth players a run of games. Great experience.
You know when you wake up in the morning. And you feel at one with the world. The sun is shining, the weather is sweet… Birds are chirping, happy chirps. Butterflies are skipping in and around the beautiful blooming flowers. The scents of these blooms are so uplifting, as a cool breeze wafts across your skin and it’s as though an invisible little fairy has kissed you, good morning. The neighbours are friendly and the world is a very nice place to be…
THEN! There’s a knock at the door. It’s a Jehovah’s Witness… And after just 10 seconds of their inane and patronising waffle, you just wanna punch ’em on the nose and tell them to get the hell away…. Ah, but you don’t do that. Cos it’s a nice day. You’re happy… So you wish them well and tell a little white lie about needing to attend to some burning toast or somink…
You gently close the door on them. Walk back into the house, put your hands up to your mouth and…. YOU SCREAM!
Then, in a short while, once again, everything is all smelling of roses and the sun is still shining and it’s like a perfect dream!
And then… Mr Smith next door get’s his bleedin’ strimmer out… ARGHHHHHHHHH!
Up the Spurs!
Yes HT the site gets stranger by the minute what with TK waxing so lyrically on the wider aspects of winning and some here questioning whether the lads should make any sort of effort to stay in a third tier Euro competition. But there has been some really stimulating, eloquent stuff from TK who’s clearly back to form after his illness (glad you made it TK) and I’ve laughed out aloud for the first time in ages at other contributions. I’m pretty sure there’s no other fan site like it.
Just to throw my two pennysworth on both topics. Couldn’t agree more with TK’s comment on living well rather than living to win, which I think lies at the root of many of our social problems. The pain of the losers in our ultra competitive society can sometimes be too much to bear, the recent Plymouth incident being but one example.
As far as the football is concerned I agree with those who argue we should use the Euro competition mainly to give our squad and academy game time. They at least will be doing all they can to make their mark by winning as many games as possible and I for one will be urging them on.
Tk has lost the plot mate! I’ve lost the plot!
But I love it really!
“Blimey, this site gets stranger by the minute!”
LOL. But can we exceed the previous strangeness? It’s been weird from the beginning when FIFA wrote the words that defined strange in this own strange way that football has. Grown men, short pants, and a ball within boundaries.
A strangeness is required to fit our strange passion for rooting for one group of grown men wearing shorts who run about after a round mound of bouncing ball filled with air at their feet, while passionately rooting against another group of grown men doing the same. And all of them being refused to do the most natural thing–to use their hands with the amazing opposable thumbs that took an eternity to evolve. And God created natural selection and billions of years of cosmological beauty for this strange result? This is what all of cosmological history has wrought? Strangeness turns in on itself like the images in a hall of infinite mirrors creating the illusion of infinity in reflection–a visual illusion of the infinity of God.
If this site were not strange, that in itself would be strange.
To a large extent our purpose to to be estranged from others who prefer the short pants and jerseys of different colors. We meet on the holy days of football to chant our hymns and prayers in our collective societies. We pay our tithes. We excoriate the non believers and those who worship at the alters of other clubs. We raise out begotten sons to follow the faith of their father. We maintain the tribe, as we dream of out distant progeny drinking from the FA cup. Our eyes remain on the grail. We eat the wafer and drink the ancestral blood in alcoholic form in the neighbor’s pub. Wine as blood.
Strangeness is essential to what we do and who we are. Let us not disparage being strange. It is deep in the core identity of any football supporter and her group.
God bless, HT. I know what you mean.
I was brought to our faith by an early prophet from Nord Iron who told us that it matters how we play and that to be worthy of our faith we must appreciate that there is a right and just way to practice our religion. Do not cheat to win, do not travel in the gutter of trickery or of boredom just to win, for winning can be losing when done wrong. Strive for beauty. Love the brotherhood and sisterhood of our attitude as taught by our captain of the most glorious years of all history. Glory is in how we live and play. The results thus can transcend mere silverware. Let the inner and outer worlds merge into one. Drink from the cup of life.