Writer: Loz

It’s that morning after feeling, isn’t it?

I am not feeling as upset as many mainly, because I try to keep perspective and look into why things are not right and how they can be fixed, accepting there is no quick fix for such things in life. For me, it’s about calm and patience and not ranting too much for too long.

I can see clearly, possibly, why this has happened and it’s few things imo that is expected. We took our eye of the ball, or pitch when the stadium took over, that is perfectly understandable, I have no issue with that because it was a huge project and had delay problems.

Players not leaving started two years ago. Toby and Eriksen didn’t want to sign new contracts, yes two years ago, and players who MP felt he could let go over a year ago didn’t go because players stuck around for the new stadium, this added to the problem of running down contracts.

Last season having no new players was always going to catch up with us and it has now. This all stems back to the stadium build, not being able to invest time and effort on the pitch and players sticking around going into their last year or so of their contracts because they wanted to be one of the first players to play at the stadium.

MP has had a raw deal because of it and I feel for two years he has wanted to start to rebuild his squad and hasn’t been able to due to players staying and no new signings. Then the stadium is done and we scraped through last season and this summer was a new start but the fact is, players once again didn’t leave.

My guess now, this was not so much about wanting to stay and play in the new stadium, they had made their debut in that, it was more about clubs not coming in for players because they knew they could talk to players in January and get then for free in the summer. Like it or not, other clubs have good business people like Levy. With the cost of players and wages, clubs are now being more prudent. Why pay £100m for Eriksen, when in a few months you get him to sign a pre-contract and get him for nothing. But also players have got so much power now and know they can earn mega money.

I’m not in the camp that players are loyal, some are but that percentage is declining. Toby, Vertonghen, Eriksen all know if they run their contracts down they will get a huge wage at their next club, that is more important to them than being loyal to Spurs, money talks. Then add the fact that they haven’t won anything, there is little to keep them at Spurs. Those like Kane who are Spurs through and through are few and far between and even he may feel the time may come that he has to go for the sake of winning something, although he will stay loyal for as long as he can, but at some point he may feel he wants to have trophies to show for his achievements and that overrides his loyalty to the club.

The point is all this started about two seasons ago when the stadium focus took priority and different agendas started to exist. You could say the agenda, is players staying to be the first to play in the stadium, was yet another act of selfishness. They’d rather run their contract down and stay just so they can go in the history books knowing the club will lose out of a transfer fee.

I think MP is struggling for various reasons, the aftermath of the last two years but also he is a good person and he has a good relationship with these players, they have grown together, so it’s hard for him to be ruthless with them. Because of the togetherness, he is trying to do right by them, not drop players who are obviously going, he wants everything to be on good terms when they leave and not create problems, his close relationship that has blossomed over the years is hurting him now, but again understandable.

He is human and he cares and treats people well and I think he knows its not all their fault, the club have to share some of the responsibility, but as I said, understandable due to the massive amount of energy and time put into the stadium build.

31 Replies to “Have Your Say: “It’s That Morning After Feeling” – Dissecting Spurs’ Bayern Nightmare & Looking To The Future”

  • DW… We can see you have adjusted Loz’s post from previous thread, now easier to read.

    She does make good points as usual.

    • Some bloody good comments lately (as ever!) so thought a few deserved a wider audience and Loz’s seemed best placed for the debate section really for anyone not following the other thread.

  • Loz….a very good post of good points, but basically it indicates strongly what most of us are seeing/already knew “the power players hold” over the club, not signing new contracts, don’t leave if it doesn’t suit, simple really. COYS

  • ……the thing about football is; good teams come together and then they start to unravel. Liverpool in the 80’s created history and then in the 90’s and early noughties it was United, now look at United? Now its Man City’s turn. We, over the last 5 seasons have become the nearly men, for 5 seasons we’ve tried to get close to silver ware but fallen either in the semi’s or in the final. Even our pursuit of the PL fell away in the battle of the Bridge. Players want success and, after 5 seasons of trying, they have grown older some have got slower and some have gone stale……Just Look at the press and TV comments, has there ever been a better time to give us a kicking. We have never been a popular club to the media and there isnt a paper or a TV Channel or Social Media outlet that is not sticking the boot and the knife in at the moment. Discontent breeds discontent and it soon becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. As Brits we grow stronger the further our backs get to the wall…personally, I dont think some of our players have the stomach for the fight or dont even understand what the fight is about and if they have been reading the headlines and the gossip columns (Verts slept with Eriksen’s wife) I cant feel sorry for them because they are writing their own headlines this season (Colchester, Bayern, Newcastle) . Like it or not Poch is going to have to take the squad through another period of change starting with a complete overhaul of our back line. Whilst all gthe empahsis was put on the midfield and replacing Eriksen no one was really noticing how our back four had lost its mojo. Watching Verts and Toby getting skinned by younger faster players was both embarassing and sad, sad because their names used to be the first on the team sheet. We have reached a point where some fans dont trust our squad anymore. We just have to hope that somehow they can pull things around but…. like a fighter in the ring whose taken just too many blows I wait to see how many have taken one punch too many and have given up. The truth will come out and we will know how many players want to turn things around. Liverpool will be the decider…get mullered at Anfield and the obituary notes will be written for the squad RIP Poch’s dream and philosophy….win, and the best statement the boys could ever make will be right there! October just became the cross road for our club!

  • Following on from my post, not signing new contracts, the answer from many to that will be that Levy is a “tight arse” for not paying the going rates, I am no accountant, though I did run a successful business, but I have to ask can Spurs compete with say the likes of MC/LFC to name 2 on this basis? am expecting a inundation of replies, lol! COYS

  • Rather than dwell on what has been, which can’t be changed, I got to thinking about how we change things to improve our future prospects. In this respect is our scouting and recruitment process fit for purpose?

    Having watched a good number of games already this season, and one in particular last night, I have to question this process at our club. In the summer we purchased an 18 year old prospect and immediately loaned him back to the selling club where he struggles to get in their matchday squad. Last night I watched an 18 year old start for the Gooners in a european match and score two very good goals and now has 4 in two games for the senior side.

    I have given just this one comparison but there are other examples, how do other clubs find and recruit players of this age and promise when we don’t seem able to?

    We have all seen very good prospects being snapped up by our competitors, no disrespect but some of whom don’t have as much to offer as we do in terms of facilities and european football, I’m thinking of the likes of Maddison, Brooks, James as home grown, and Martinelli and Guendouzzi as examples from overseas, all of whom have made an immediate impact at PL level at an early age. I couldn’t find the fee paid for Martinelli but otherwise none of these players cost silly money.

    We are also seeing the emergence of a number of academy players making their mark in the PL, for example Abraham and Mount at Chelsea, Greenwood and McTominay at United, Foden at City, Rice at West Ham, Longstaff at the Toons and a number at the Gooners that I’d rather not mention. Where are ours? We haven’t really seen any exciting prospects in our own academy who might be considered on the verge of being good enough to move up to the senior side – with the possible exception of Parrott and maybe Tanganga. Almost without exception all the ones I’ve seen are no more than journeymen who might eventually make a decent living playing in the lower leagues, we don’t appear to have any ‘flair’ players that might turn into the Maddisons and Martinellis of the future, nor do we seem to be able to find them from elsewhere.

  • In reply to you question PY, one of the purposes of building the new stadium was to increase matchday and commercial income to give us a better chance of competing with those clubs that are already ahead of us in this respect.

    To be fair the stadium has only been open for a few months, part of which was out of season so bringing in no money. From what I can make out we have already started to improve wages on the basis of increasing income but it will take a little while before it has full effect.

  • Just caught Poch ‘s presser….He looks and sounds calm, quite impressed and he makes a valid point; you cant go from beating Southampton with 10 men to suddenely becoming uncommited players ….! Lets hope he changes the friggin’ philosophy then or we’ll run out of steam again after 30 minutes!

  • PY – A couple of points regarding your post at 10.48:

    1) We shouldn’t expect to compete with City financially. But with Liverpool, we are closing the gap rapidly. In 2014, our revenues were 70% of Liverpool’s. Last year, they were 83% and this year’s will be even closer. We are closing the gap rapidly and they are no longer in another category to us.

    The big difference is that they are spending a lot more money, proportionally, than we are. And that is down to how clubs are run, and Levy’s reluctance to spend. We could in fact come very close to their spending if we accepted running the club differently.

    2) Although those richer clubs will on average outperform us thanks to their greater means, may I remind you that we have been outspent by 2/3 of the PL in recent years (despite those clubs have less money than us), and that teams like Birmingham, Leicester, Wigan and others have all won trophies more recently than we have?

    Having less money makes it harder on average to win trophies, bur it doesn’t make it impossible!

    You don’t need to be an accountant to accept these cold, hard facts.

    Regarding the article itself, most of what had to be said about the Bayern game was said in the match thread. For everyone’s mental sanity, I think it’s best if we just turn the page and move on. We can’t dwell on that embarrassment forever.

    Oyveh – just to react to your post specifically – Ferguson once said that a squad had a shelf life of 5 years, after which it needed to be rebuilt, no matter how big/good the players. It’s looking to be quite true in this case.

    And I forget if it was Mourinho or Conte who said that, very rare exceptions like Ferguson or Wenger aside, a manager’s ideas were only good for about 3 years, after which the system and philosophy became stale and lost on players.

    I don’t know if I agree with that, or how true that is, but it’s something to ponder. Either way, whether it’s the manager or the players, it seems that change is inevitable in order to keep things fresh.

  • TQ2S…..thanks for your reply, it was as I expected, though I did know already.

    BS…..again thanks for your reply, it was as I expected from yourself.
    Mind the 5 year squad life, could quite easily be true, thus re-building.
    As for “managers ideas were only good for about 3 years” that I will take with a pinch of salt esp if it came out of Moaninio gob, when did he ever stay more than 3 years and not get a massive pay-off.

    Sorry lads n lassies for asking that finance question, because to be honest I was getting bored with it all, the blame game, its his/its their fault blah blah it is in every article know matter what! lol! COYS

  • BelgianSpur – There is a way to come up with two completely different answers on spending, depending on whether you talk about net spend or gross, not clear which you were talking about. So in terms of net spend according to one account City have spent 4.5 times what Liverpool have since Fenway took over. But if you get £120m for Coutinho you can rebuild your defence and still show a net spend of zero. I would argue what Klopp has done is spent his money very well rather than spent a lot of it (in Manchester terms anyway). What complicates the issue of course is players running down contracts, Liverpool got £120m for Coutinho we will get nothing for Eriksen. It seems to be a general problem, Ozil at Arsenal, Sanchez at United. But so far anyway one Klopp hasn’t had to deal with, luck or good management ? who knows.

  • TQ2S

    An excellent post and one I was wonderering how to address ref our Academy players.

    Having perhaps some of the best training facilities does not necessarily mean you will produce some of the best youngsters.

    How is it that our younger teams are being beaten regularly beaten eg Brighton by teams with supposedly poorer training facilities than ours

    Also Bayern U19 ? gave our side a footballing lesson .

    From this it appears that we have few youngsters who will fit soon into the First team and that doesn’t auger well for the future ?

    Parrot was touted heavily but made little impact at Colchester .

    I understood the philosophy of the Academy was to blood the new generation so that when the older squad members needed a rest a competent youngster would take his place ?

    It would appear that we are not yet able or even have the youngsters , unlike several Premier clubs , to bring in any Academy player who will make an impression .

    Is our recruiting policy or our training methods incorrect and are the people in charge doing the right things to produce youngsters to come into the first team ?

  • PY – say what you want about Mourinho but not only does the track record of winning speak for itself, it should aslo be noted that highly-rate managers such as Conte, Ancelotti or Pep have also changed clubs every 3-4 years. Coincidence or simply the norm?

  • jod – I was talking about gross spend. I take your point about Liverpool’s net spend remaining reasonable, which only reinforces my point that they are not in another financial category to us. They have just spent money more wisely, on average, and haven’t let silly, self-imposed wage limits hinder their development.

    I will also bring up the fact that when we have sold players for large fees (Bale, Walker), we have reinvested rather poorly, targeting a multitude of average players.

    Instead, when losing a good player, Liverpool have reinvested sizable amounts on a single quality player who could transform the team (and to illustrate this, your Coutinho – Van Dijk example speaks volumes).

    Finally, Liverpool too have had to deal with losing players on free transfers (either important players which could have been sold for a large fee, ie Emre Can to Juventus, squad players which they probably could have gotten something for, ie Sturridge, Moreno, or expensive buys who turned out to be poor and were let go for free resulting in a huge loss, ie Markovic). They haven’t been immune to the problem. They’ve just dealt with the situation better it seems.

  • BS…..ok! you win, coincidence or the norm, I have no idea! but please tell me this how much success would the 4 named managers/coach’s have had had they been at Spurs, no better than we already have, so point proven if you do not have deep pockets and spend loads of dosh you will win nout! thus buying success. Not for me I am afraid. COYS

  • Allan – a lot of good questions regarding developing players there. Here are my 2 cents:

    1) any results at youth level have to be taken with a grain of salt. Managers at youth level have an overriding objective, which is to develop players for the 1st team. That trumps winning, at that level. Which means that decisions made at youth level will go in the favour of developing specific players, rather than fielding the team which is most likely to win the game. Sometimes, giving minutes to a promising prospect is much more important to the club than actually winning a specific youth game. Or giving game time to a 1st team player returning from injury. In that respect, looking at results only tells part of the story.

    2) at a top PL club, the bar to make the 1st team is set quite high. No disrespect to Brighton, but breaking into their first team is probably easier than it is breaking into ours. We’ve got internationals at every position, and it’s going to take a pretty special prospect to make the grade. I reckon that a lot of our youth players would probably find an easier path to the first team at “smaller” clubs. So again, the fact that you see more youth players at smaller clubs could simply mean that it’s an easier 11 to crack.

    3) Finally, and I have been saying this for years on VS, trying to build the squad through the academy is a pipe dream. Between the players who never make the grade, the injuries and the poaching from other clubs, it’s unrealistic to expect more than 1 or 2 prospects to make it in a period of 5 years. In that sense, we have actually over performed hugely, with the likes of Kane, Winks, Rose, and to a lesser extent, Walker-Peters and Foyth all in line for first team minutes after starting their Spurs careers in our academy. We are doing better than most, and the fact that Parrott is the latest name shows that we’re doing something right. Despite this, we’ll never get away from the fact that external recruitment is needed.

    The list of players who were not good enough is long (Mason, Bentaleb, Townsend, Pritchard, Carroll, not to mention the Shayon Harrisons, Shaquille Coulthirsts, Marcus Edwards of this world) and it’s a game where the vast majority of graduates will never make it.

    Why does the club persevere, you may ask? Because with the names I just listed, the club made tens of millions in transfer fees!

    When it comes to the academy, we are doing better than most, but it’s important to have realistic expectation as to what it can really produce, and what we can realistically expect from it. A lot of fans don’t, which leads to frustration.

  • PY – those managers probably would not have been as successful at Spurs, because while those managers have all been generously backed at their respective clubs, they probably would not have been at Spurs.

    You may not like the idea of “buying success” as you call it, but there is sadly a very strong correlation between how much a club spends and how likely it is to win things. It’s the reality of modern football – like it or not.

    This being said, statistical outliers happen from time to time. We are just hoping to be that outlier, riding our luck to a trophy. It isn’t impossible, but it’s highly unlikely. We’d already have a better chance if we were targeting trophies that the richer boys are overlooking (ie the domestic cups), but MP doesn’t fancy those… 😉

    But let’s keep doing the same things over and over, and expect different results!

  • I don’t think it’s fair to say the richer boys aren’t targetting the domestic trophies BS, look up the history of the League and FA Cups and you’ll find the two Manchesters, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool have dominated both competitions as winners in recent years.

  • BS….agreed “it’s the reality of modern football” – “like it or not” I am of an age I will “or not” thank you, I have far to many lovely/great memories, visiting here and there, England/Europe, of Spurs in their yester years, I will leave this “buy success” to you younger/modern fans, as I have said prior, until money became the be all and end all of everything, nobody discussed/talked about CEO’s/Managing Directors all they chatted about was the Manager/Coach or the players. I am a “Yid” through and through and will always follow my team, Spurs! no matter what. COYS

    • Poch’s message that a team that can beat Southampton with 10 men does not become rubbish in three days rings hollow with me. We do have great players who can play sublime football at times. That’s not the point: there is something missing in the team DNA which shows a lack of belief, commitment and ambition. There may well be a purple patch to come but sure as eggs there will be other dire results too. A clearout is definitely overdue and that probably includes the management team.

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